DOUG
Go easy on recruiter comments. We have honest ones, no longer recruiters, on this forum.
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Cameras Show Army Recruiters Misleading Students
See here.
(Nov. 3) — An ABC News undercover investigation showed Army recruiters telling students that the war in Iraq was over, in an effort to get them to enlist.
ABC News and New York affiliate WABC equipped students with hidden video cameras before they visited 10 Army recruitment offices in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.
"Nobody is going over to Iraq anymore?" one student asks a recruiter.
"No, we're bringing people back," he replies.
"We're not at war. War ended a long time ago," another recruiter says.
...During the ABC News sessions, some recruiters told our students if they enlisted, there would be little chance they'd to go Iraq.
...Yet ABC News found one recruiter who even claimed if you didn't like the Army, you could just quit.
...Sue Niederer, whose son, Seth, joined the Army in 2002, said she was all too familiar with recruiters' lies.
"They need to do anything they possibly can to get recruits," Niederer said. Seth was sent to Iraq and was killed by a roadside bomb.
Niederer said she was not surprised by what ABC News had found. She believes it's still a widespread problem. She said that recruiters told Seth he wouldn't be put into combat.
"Ninety percent [are] going to be putting their lives on the line for our country," she said. "Tell them the truth. That's all. Just tell them the truth."
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The War is Over Says Army Recruiter
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Doug
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The War is Over Says Army Recruiter
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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JamesH
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Nothing new here! This crap has been going on for decades.
When I was a recruiter there were always problems with documentation such as criminal records and high school transcripts that were questionalbe at best. The Army was known as the worst to lie but the Navy and Marines came in a close second and the Air Force came in third. The one lie that all recruiters are guilty of is the lie of omission. You don't exactly lie but you just don't tell all the gory details such as working in the chow hall for 30 days or the standing guard duty on New Year's Eve or you may never get promoted in your chosen field because it is overcrowded. Of course you always avoid the topic of war and death and during the 90's when I was a recruiter it was not a problem because there was really nothing in the news that kept anyone's attention.
What is really sad is that these tactics might even work on some of the kids that they are trying to recruit. I'm sure that there are a few kids out there that do not relize what this war is about, how long it has been going on or in what direction it seems to be heading. Critical thinking is not being taught in our schools (i.e. evolution) or at home!
I am proud to say that in my two years as a recruiter I never intentionally lied to a kid. If I did it was certainly not my intent. I tried to tell the kids as much as I could about the Marines, the good and the not-so-good. I am guilty of omission just like every other recruiter because you are trying to keep your career going by making quota every month.
I will tell everyone my final recruiting story when I saw the end was near: I was fired from the recruiting service.
I was relieved from active duty as a recruiter on Feburary 15th, 1996 in Oklahoma City. (Yes I was there for the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building) I was struggling to make my 3 per month quota and the best I had done was two in one month. So in Novemver of 1995 the head recruiter brough in this "expert recruiter" that went over all of my paper work and reviewed my files to tell me how I could achieve my goal every month with his "magic advice". He went through some of my paper work and he would see something not checked or marked like the kid's drivers license numbers or something silly like his full middle name. The "expert" would then explain to me that if I had just filled out this vital piece of information this kid would have joined the Marines. BULLSHIT!!!
Then the supposed "expert" went through my school records and found that I had a Catholic school in my area. He got all excited and asked how many of the kids were in my "Delayed Entry Program" were from this Catholic school and I told him "zero." Well, then here comes the "magic"! He explained to me that if I went up to the school, became friendly with the nuns and "did one of the nuns" they would tell those kids to join the Marines. That was the "expert" advice I was given and all of my problems would magically be solved.
That was the point when I knew I was done. I fought the battle one more month and hung it up. Totally ended my career. I could not get promoted again. That is why most recruiters lie, they want to make the military a career or they want to get promoted or something else. Most civilians don't know that failing at recruiting duty or D.I. duty (the drill field) ENDS YOUR CAREER. That's it: no more. It's all over.
While I'm on the subject, I'd like to clear up the "urban legend" that military recruiters get paid a bonus for each kid they put in. Not true. They get paid a set salary (according to rank, time served, etc.) just like everyone else in the service.
Again if we had a system of national puplic service that included the military and everyone got an equal chance to serve this would not be a problem because we would not be in Iraq now! Let me clarify that if everyone's child had an equal risk of ending up in a war, then the leaders of this country would be more careful about the conflicts we got involved in!
When I was a recruiter there were always problems with documentation such as criminal records and high school transcripts that were questionalbe at best. The Army was known as the worst to lie but the Navy and Marines came in a close second and the Air Force came in third. The one lie that all recruiters are guilty of is the lie of omission. You don't exactly lie but you just don't tell all the gory details such as working in the chow hall for 30 days or the standing guard duty on New Year's Eve or you may never get promoted in your chosen field because it is overcrowded. Of course you always avoid the topic of war and death and during the 90's when I was a recruiter it was not a problem because there was really nothing in the news that kept anyone's attention.
What is really sad is that these tactics might even work on some of the kids that they are trying to recruit. I'm sure that there are a few kids out there that do not relize what this war is about, how long it has been going on or in what direction it seems to be heading. Critical thinking is not being taught in our schools (i.e. evolution) or at home!
I am proud to say that in my two years as a recruiter I never intentionally lied to a kid. If I did it was certainly not my intent. I tried to tell the kids as much as I could about the Marines, the good and the not-so-good. I am guilty of omission just like every other recruiter because you are trying to keep your career going by making quota every month.
I will tell everyone my final recruiting story when I saw the end was near: I was fired from the recruiting service.
I was relieved from active duty as a recruiter on Feburary 15th, 1996 in Oklahoma City. (Yes I was there for the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building) I was struggling to make my 3 per month quota and the best I had done was two in one month. So in Novemver of 1995 the head recruiter brough in this "expert recruiter" that went over all of my paper work and reviewed my files to tell me how I could achieve my goal every month with his "magic advice". He went through some of my paper work and he would see something not checked or marked like the kid's drivers license numbers or something silly like his full middle name. The "expert" would then explain to me that if I had just filled out this vital piece of information this kid would have joined the Marines. BULLSHIT!!!
Then the supposed "expert" went through my school records and found that I had a Catholic school in my area. He got all excited and asked how many of the kids were in my "Delayed Entry Program" were from this Catholic school and I told him "zero." Well, then here comes the "magic"! He explained to me that if I went up to the school, became friendly with the nuns and "did one of the nuns" they would tell those kids to join the Marines. That was the "expert" advice I was given and all of my problems would magically be solved.
That was the point when I knew I was done. I fought the battle one more month and hung it up. Totally ended my career. I could not get promoted again. That is why most recruiters lie, they want to make the military a career or they want to get promoted or something else. Most civilians don't know that failing at recruiting duty or D.I. duty (the drill field) ENDS YOUR CAREER. That's it: no more. It's all over.
While I'm on the subject, I'd like to clear up the "urban legend" that military recruiters get paid a bonus for each kid they put in. Not true. They get paid a set salary (according to rank, time served, etc.) just like everyone else in the service.
Again if we had a system of national puplic service that included the military and everyone got an equal chance to serve this would not be a problem because we would not be in Iraq now! Let me clarify that if everyone's child had an equal risk of ending up in a war, then the leaders of this country would be more careful about the conflicts we got involved in!
JamesH
"Knowledge will set you free, but freedom comes with responsibilities." I know that someone had to say that before me.
"Knowledge will set you free, but freedom comes with responsibilities." I know that someone had to say that before me.
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Barbara Fitzpatrick
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James - your proposal for universal service is something my mother talked about back in the 50s and 60s. The closest we've gotten since the Depression (and the CCC my daddy served in prior to enlisting in the Army Air Corp in Jan of 1942 wasn't THAT close) is the AmeriCorp Clinton started & never could get full funding for. You are absolutely right - if the Bush twins had any possibility of going to Iraq...
Barbara Fitzpatrick
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Barbara Fitzpatrick
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Darrel - the universal service that James and I noted includes but only as a small portion the military aspect. Many of the things the National Guard does are not truly military, just an organized body of relatively strong, health people. It's true that the military part (a "draft") is what would keep us from war if it were truly universal - and I suppose that makes your comment apt. However, a universal program of service that would essentially roll together the military aspect with Americorp, the old Vista program, the even older CCC program, and others would be good for the country - and provide an organized group that could rapidly be shifted more militarily should this country ever be attacked by an actual military force (as opposed to terrorists - domestic and foreign - which should be handled through the law enforcement agencies and are not in the scope of a military organizaation). If the "reward" for that one or two years of service was two years of post secondary school or training, you'd see a very positive turnaround in our country's economy (for instance, no more Toyota deciding to build in Canada because Americans are too expensive to train).
Barbara Fitzpatrick