I don’t care that Jesus Christ died 2009 years ago!

[astromind]

Main article
Our countries forefathers establish a strong first amendment to keep the right to free speech and the separation of church and state protected regardless of the government’s position or religious influence. Since then the United States has been greatly influenced by the Christian religion to a point where the United States has: In God we trust on our dollar bill, non-believers can’t hold public office in many States, gays aren’t allowed martial benefits in many states, we still uses the Georgian calendar created by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 A.D and many more.
My issue for now is how to mobilize America’s rational community to take these violations of church and state to the Supreme Court so that they are recognized and to gather ideas and work on the construction of a new Non-religious American Scientific Calendar. Like our forefathers we should fight for the separation church and State in order to form a more perfect union. As our nation and our world commit to science, reason, and space exploration more questions will be asked about our faith and our purpose in the cosmos. I find it interesting to imagine what kind of calendar our explorers will have when they settle the Moon or Mars. Will they keep to earthly faiths on another world? Will there calendar year start on humans first arrival to the new world? These are questions that we should consider today, as we continue to live in space and prepare to go back to the Moon. I can also see how these questions might have arisen in the past the day Columbus discovered America October 12, 1492 A.D. Do you think are nation should have kept the Christian calendar created by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 A.D that begins with the birth of Jesus Christ or do you agree with me that this is a violation of the separation of church and state?

I think that we should create a Non-religious American Scientific Calendar that begins with the arrival of Christopher Columbus to the new world. And my argument for the United States to adopt a new Calendar is this. America adopted the Gregorian calendar in 1752 when we were still a British Colony it wasn’t until between 1776 and 1789 that America became an established independent country. So you can see my point when I say that the Georgian calendar was handed to use and wasn’t declared. You might ask than why our founding fathers didn’t establish a new Calendar with American ideals and values. And I would assume to say is because our founding fathers knew that in order for the United States to gain its independence the constitution should have had to at the time appealed to most British Americans and the large majority of Christian Americas, because many American colonists were loyal to Britain which adopted the Georgian Calendar in 1752. And note, that any such legislation at the time would very well possibly be thrown out because of its inability to unite the country, for example slavery.
I’m asking the United States Federal government to declare a Non-religious American Scientific Calendar to recognize government holidays and holidays created all over the Americas that aren’t affiliated with any religion to be used in all branches of the federal government. Now that we are in the scientific era, it is important that we adopt and live by a scientific calendar to give all of use an understanding of time and our place in the universe. It is clear that if the United States adopted a new Non-religious American Scientific Calendar that this kind of change would be an obvious divorce between the Christian Church and the United States and an international recognition of United States commitment to remain unbiased and tolerant of religion. For this establishment, starting with the founding of the new world and based not on European ideals but on American ideals and values would unite most of the Americas and would be respected by rational people all over the world.

P.S-I ask of you to give me your input, to add, revise, or change any part of this idea and if possible start on achieving this goal. It is more viable to find a necessary solution so that all the other problems can fall into place.

My reply to a friend...
I am ok with a movement for a new Calendar to take place reviewed and backed by someone famous like Richard Dawkins. A Calendar that wasn't completely rooted in Western Civilization, but also American civilization. And was used by our government but not created. That didn't include any religious holidays, especially religious holidays not founded in America. That would leave thanks giving open for debate being that it was founded in America. Arbor Day was founded in Nebraska, and should be established as the governments holiday to recognize the environment. President Carter as the founder of National Grandparents Day, created in the United States and is already recognized thus should also be included. Seasonal Holidays like winter solstice would be included, North and South American Holidays, Government holidays like independence day and memorial day. All Holidays that our established should be of the most importance to the wide majority under these restrictions and studied to determine the amount of times periodically and best times of the year for citizens to take breaks, vacations and to calibrate. Everything else should be changed; more scientific studies should be done to determine how we should use time for humans to be more productive, like hours and days in the week. Labels for weeks and months should be more American. We should start the day with the best historical record of the day America was discovered, I’m debating changing winter Solstice to something like Christmas. All this would be accepted by the government for it citizens to live better lives, but not to be enforced on it citizens. It should be available to anyone to buy the religious copy of this new calendar in any retail store. A new moon calendar should be created one day for colonies on the moon. And should start on the day Nail Armstrong took his one small step for man.

[Dardedar]

Nobody knows when Jesus died, but we do know it was not 2,009 years ago. We also know he was not born 2,009 years ago.

As for input, I don't think I agree with any of it. The calendar isn't going to be changed and it wouldn't be more "scientific" if it was. Making a calender cycle around when the brute Christopher Columbus stumbled upon the Americas strikes me as a worse idea than using the wrong dates for Jesus, as we do now.

You say: "the United States Federal government to declare a Non-religious American Scientific Calendar"

This is not an idea I can imagine anyone taking seriously. My input is that this piece reads like satire.

You asked!

D.

[tmiller51]

I agree that there are a lot of "fingerprints" of religion in our government that should go away, but I don't think changing the calendar would ever take hold regardless of what it is based on. We can't even get around to commonly adopting international units even though it is probably negatively impacting us economically.

Tim

[Savonarola]

We can't even get around to commonly adopting international units even though it is probably negatively impacting us economically.

And, I'd argue, educationally.

[astromind]

Yes, the metric system should be our next step Tim.
We should start teaching the new calendar in schools as soon that it’s declared by the government. And should be used in every part of the government in hopes that it well spread to all parts of the our civilization.

If you want to see other comments I've gotten go to....
http://www.thinkatheist.com/profiles/bl ... sus-christ

[Savonarola]

We should start teaching the new calendar in schools as soon that it’s declared by the government.

I think that this is both unwise and unproductive. The Gregorian calendar is the most widely-used calendar across the world. Its use has become virtually secularized; creating a new calendar is unnecessary and potentially confusing, and creating a new calendar based on American history is arrogant and inviting further disdain from the rest of the world.

Our focuses should first be on violations that directly impact people, such as hiring or firing misdeeds. While it is true that some states still have religious disqualifications, any action based upon those will quickly be struck down. It is more important that we strip people of the fear of electing atheists. There needs to be a push for education to encourage tolerance and eliminate discrimination.
I also agree that popular symbolism should be high on the list; "under God" should be taken out of the pledge and "In God We Trust" should be rescinded as a motto and taken off money. Religious public monuments should go next. The calendar is near the bottom of the list, if it's on the list at all.

In fact, I think it would be interesting to poll high school students about what "AD" in the calendar means. I'm sure a significant percentage will deduce that it means "after Christ," but I bet that only a tiny percentage can tell what it stands for, and no more would be able to say what it translates to.

[astromind]

When the Calendar does change and it will one day, it isn’t a waste of time for others now or in the future to look at your work and continue what you started. For now, let’s keep it to the ones who want to start living their lives more productively and without religion. It is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I find this idea every entertaining! The fact is we should live our lives by a calendar created in the era of modern science, not 500 years ago when people thought the world was flat. Yes, it would be hard to begin at first, but we could change the system to: Mythological Age(MA), or the era of Jesus Christ(JC), or the era before Science(BS), ext… I have thought of many dates to start this calendar on and figured to not make it any more complicated then when to start it on the day America was discovered(Columbus had the courage to explorer). I also went over Independence Day and others, but ultimately I would like to form a list, and hold a vote.

[astromind]

We all have talked about it, blogged about it, and spoke out against changing in “God We Trust” on the dollar bill and nothing has changed. I ask you what more can we do now, that hasn’t already been done? This calendar Idea is one that I can individually start living by right now in defiance of Christianity and our government, which will be noticed and then I can take on bigger issues. Someone take this Calendar and run with it, I want to see it this happen.

[ChristianLoeschel]

Seems to me we have bigger fish to fry than replacing one arbitrary year 0 with another...

[Doug]

We all have talked about it, blogged about it, and spoke out against changing in “God We Trust” on the dollar bill and nothing has changed. I ask you what more can we do now, that hasn’t already been done? This calendar Idea is one that I can individually start living by right now in defiance of Christianity and our government, which will be noticed and then I can take on bigger issues. Someone take this Calendar and run with it, I want to see it this happen.

DOUG
I don't see how a calendar can be "more scientific."

Right now a standard use is "BCE" and "CE," for "Before Common Era" and "Common Era," corresponding to what was formerly "BC" and "AD." This is in standard academic use. The World Religions textbook that I have for my classes uses this designation. It is not so much an attempt to be more scientific, but rather an attempt to avoid biased designations that bring in Christian terms.

To wit:
==================
Common Era notation has been adopted in several non-Christian cultures, by many scholars in religious studies and other academic fields, and by others wishing to be sensitive to non-Christians, because Common Era does not explicitly make use of religious titles for Jesus, such as Christ and Lord, which are used in the BC/AD notation.
See here.
=================

[astromind]

I’ve been watching “The Human Timepiece” on the “Science Channel”, where there’s a lot of information about how we can start living better lives right now. I would like a study done to determine the correct amount of workdays that should be in one workweek, and not just assume that because God created the world in seven days so we should only have seven days in one week. Our calendar would be based on two factors, the time it takes our earth to complete one revolution around the sun, and the time that should be adjusted to help humans live better lives.

[Savonarola]

Our calendar would be based on two factors, the time it takes our earth to complete one revolution around the sun,

Turns out, we have one of those already. It's been revised and tweaked to be accurate to an amazing degree. It's called the Gregorian calendar.

and the time that should be adjusted to help humans live better lives.

How else do you think we came up with five workdays and two weekend days? I'm satisfied with the cycle as is.

[astromind]

Before I wanted a new Calendar I, I was angry with the Christian church and how they controlled our time by having their own calendar. The Christian Church is the world’s biggest manipulator; they have controlled the minds of man since the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Since the Christian calendar created by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 A.D they have controlled our time, thus the way we live our lives. They have manipulated our children into celebrating their holidays with toys and candy while we have done nothing. The French Revolutionary Calendar is a valuable reference and building block to have a perfect Calendar. This new calendars is an important topic to take action for or entertain the thought, because the calendar we use today is too religious and was created in a time when very little science was known. I take this action of the church as the ultimate slap in the face on humanity. And hope, that one day the world well not be enslaved by religion.

[Doug]

Before I wanted a new Calendar I, I was angry with the Christian church and how they controlled our time by having their own calendar. The Christian Church is the world’s biggest manipulator; they have controlled the minds of man since the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Since the Christian calendar created by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 A.D they have controlled our time, thus the way we live our lives. They have manipulated our children into celebrating their holidays with toys and candy while we have done nothing. The French Revolutionary Calendar is a valuable reference and building block to have a perfect Calendar. This new calendars is an important topic to take action for or entertain the thought, because the calendar we use today is too religious and was created in a time when very little science was known. I take this action of the church as the ultimate slap in the face on humanity. And hope, that one day the world well not be enslaved by religion.

DOUG
Christianity is declining. One day the meaning of "2009" or "2100" as a reference to Jesus will be as distant at the meaning of other gods whose names we use every day, whose names are memorialized in the days of the week and the months of the year. Most people are completely unaware that most of these names are in reference to non-Christian gods.

[Dardedar]

This is still an issue I can't take seriously. I am still 50/50 that his is a ruse by some nut to make atheists look silly. But I'll point out the elephant in the room and give it a couple kicks:

ASTRO
When the Calendar does change and it will one day, it isn’t a waste of time for others now or in the future to look at your work and continue what you started.>>

DAR
There is no basis for "it will one day." The modern world, globally, is extremely well established/committed to the current calendar. The idea that it should/would/could be changed now because, nearly two thousand years ago, it was loosely based upon the world's most popular superstition, is absurd. This is part of our human heritage, like it or not. Everyone one of our months, every day of the week has some basis in pagan religion. No one cares. Let me pick a month at random. March. Let's see:

"The name of March comes from ancient Rome, when March was the first month of the year and named Martius after Mars, the Roman god of war."

The idea that we should change the name of March because of this heritage is absurd, and the idea that the zero year on our calendar year should be changed is stupidity on stilts. And the idea that it should have anything to do with Christopher Columbus is insulting, and the idea that this would make it "scientific" is so dumb it's embarrassing.

ASTRO: we should live our lives by a calendar created in the era of modern science, not 500 years ago when people thought the world was flat.

DAR
Get informed. That's a silly myth. See: "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea." Amazon review:

"You remember the story about the frightened sailors who went with Columbus in 1492, but were sure that they were going to sail off the edge of the world. They almost mutinied, they were so scared. But Columbus got to land rather than to the enormous cataract, proving to the satisfaction of everyone ever since that the world was not flat but round. If you do remember all this, perhaps you also remember being told it was all bosh, but perhaps not; the story of Columbus bravely proving the world was round is such a satisfactory myth that it will probably never die....

Educated medieval people did not believe the Earth to be flat. In fact, if they studied their Plato, Aristotle, or Euclid, they knew the shape of the Earth. The Columbus story was appealing to those who unnecessarily wanted to promote a view of science in eternal warfare with religion."

LINK

Note: Aristotle was born in 384 BC.

Wiki has an article on "Myth of the Flat Earth." See it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_mythology

Excerpt:

"The Myth of the Flat Earth or Flat Earth mythology refers to the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical. During the early Middle Ages, many scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. By the 14th century, belief in a flat earth among the educated was essentially dead. Flat-Earth models were in fact held at earlier (pre-medieval) times, before the spherical model became commonly accepted in Hellenistic astronomy.[1].

According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of “flat earth darkness” among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth’s roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[2] David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers also write: "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference."[3]

In 1945 the Historical Association listed "Columbus and the Flat Earth Conception" second of twenty in its first-published pamphlet on common errors in history."

ASTRO
Yes, it would be hard to begin at first, but we could change the system to: Mythological Age(MA), or the era of Jesus Christ(JC), or the era before Science(BS), ext… I have thought of many dates to start this calendar on and figured to not make it any more complicated then when to start it on the day America was discovered(Columbus had the courage to explorer). I also went over Independence Day and others, but ultimately I would like to form a list, and hold a vote.

DAR
I see two options. Either you are are mentally ill, or you are having us on. If the second, good joke! Pretty dry though. Perhaps you're British?

Regarding the metric system, there are two ways to do this. Canada imposed it and people rebelled (a little). Now it is accepted and done. The US is going the slow voluntary way. The science and medical fields have already converted because the old system is stupid and nearly unworkable. The rest will come along later as American manufacturing becomes less influential. Either way, metric is the future. The US the last hold out.

ASTRO
This calendar Idea is one that I can individually start living by right now in defiance of Christianity and our government

DAR
Yes, you can start calling the months, the days and the years, anything you want. Knock yourself out. And you can fight daylight saving time by setting your watch to whatever hour you wish (as my senile grandfather used to do). But know one will care or ever take this issue seriously. They will only point at you and giggle. None of this is going to change, nor should it. It's part of our human history, our heritage.

D.

[astromind]

I like your skepticism, and your continued approach to challenge my reason. This Idea is presented for you to see the meaning behind how you live your life, and open your mind to a world of possibility of what could be, regardless of what your use to. I believe it is in America’s cards to expand in the future. I dream about the United States uniting the Americas starting with Mexico, and one day controlling the world’s greatest natural resource the South American rain forest.

You can’t say that were always going to live by this calendar or that the Calendar created in 1582 AD best method for use to keep time, because too little was known compared to what we know today. It was just 40 years earlier that Nicolaus Copernicus which displaced the earth from the center of the universe with the sun. They did get some of the math right, but not all.

Copy Wiki, Accuracy
The Gregorian calendar improves the approximation made by the Julian calendar by skipping three Julian leap days in every 400 years, giving an average year of 365.2425 mean solar days long,[38]. This approximation has an error of about one day per 3300 years with respect to the mean tropical year, but less than half this error with respect to the vernal equinox year of 365.24237 days. With respect to both solstices the Gregorian Calendar gives an average year length that is actually shorter than the true length. By any criterion, the Gregorian calendar is substantially more accurate than the one day in 128 years error of the Julian calendar (average year 365.25 days).
Errors
On timescales of thousands of years, the Gregorian calendar falls behind the seasons because the slowing down of the Earth's rotation makes each day slightly longer over time (see tidal acceleration and leap second) while the year maintains a more uniform duration
End copy

My own personal opinion is that the best historical day on which the new world/Americas were discovered should be day zero on that world’s calendar despite religion, politics or their own personal character. For example I believe Neil Armstrong’s one small foot step for mankind should be day, hour,min,sec zero on a lunar colony calendar.

[astromind]

I don’t have to remind your criticism, that the Christian Church has manipulated mankind since the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, over a thousand years ago. If we don’t make adjustments to fix these errors, our time will be off thousands of years from now. (If you don’t like the Idea of a new Calendar can you tell me how to turn a non-religious holiday into a more favorable one with, fairytales, toys and candy. That is a Joke)

[Dardedar]

Errors
On timescales of thousands of years, the Gregorian calendar falls behind the seasons because the slowing down of the Earth's rotation makes each day slightly longer over time (see tidal acceleration and leap second) while the year maintains a more uniform duration
End copy

DAR
Just to be clear, the amount the earth slows is very little over thousands of years. The difference noticeable is due to the slight inaccuracy (or out of synch-ness) between the earth and our man made "second."

"The length of the mean solar day has increased by roughly 2 milliseconds since it was exactly 86,400 seconds of atomic time about 1.88 centuries ago (i.e. the 188 year difference between 2008 and 1820). That is, the length of the mean solar day is at present about 86,400.002 seconds instead of exactly 86,400 seconds....

"The confusion arises because some mistake leap seconds for a measure of the rate at which the Earth is slowing. The 1 second increments are, however, indications of the accumulated difference in time between the two systems. (Also, it is important to note that the current difference in the length of day from 86,400 seconds is the accumulation over nearly two centuries, not just the previous year.)"

LINK

ASTRO
Neil Armstrong’s one small foot step for mankind should be day, hour,min,sec zero on a lunar colony calendar.

DAR
A moon colony with a calendar different than ours! That wouldn't be confusing at all. And we have a name for it. It could be the "Loony Colony Calendar." So on the moon it's year 40 LCC right now.

ASTRO
can you tell me how to turn a non-religious holiday into a more favorable one

DAR
Celebrating holidays is optional. Our freethinker group celebrates solstice.

D.

[astromind]

As for this idea is laughable. I’m glad you found something that you can find humor in. I am the kind of guy that doesn’t care how others might view himself, for example I’m the only person in my family going to hell. This is an insanely big idea that would change the way the world works and however insane it might be this new calendar would do on the whole wonders for humanity. It takes a big idea and a momentous movement of people to bring change. I like this new calendar because it well upset the Catholic Church, and bring our own humanity back into focus.

Check out this Link… http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/anno.html

[astromind]

I hate to say that all of you are right(Darrel), but you are. I finally realized that we couldn’t just start a new American calendar and screw up relationships and trade with the rest of the world. It has to be worldly. However, if we could start a new Calendar I wish we could have day zero as the birth of Western Civilization than we should start around the rise of Greek democracy from (c.750-500 BCE). I believe Aristotle death for his state is more worthy than Jesus Christ death to save us from hell or Gaius Julius Caesars start of empire when he was assassinated on the Ides of March (15 March) in 44 BC.