fayfreethinkers.com

DAR
Bob Hall, The Old Jarhead has written a new essay entitled: Here's What I think. It's a long rightwing rant with about 80 little paragraphs and over 3,800 words. I've been itching to give it a good spanking. I would like to respond in his comment section but, for a man who likes to bray about freedom, he regularly finds it necessary to censor comments he doesn't agree with. But all the butt kissers do get through! I will try to be as polite as I can with this nonsense.

Let's begin:

****
Here's what I think--an essay

Excerpts:

BOB
"I think reading quotations from great thinkers is part of an ongoing education. And I think the quotes of Thomas Jefferson are among the best. When I read these quotes attributed to him:

--Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be the that of everry[sic] free state."

DAR
You give no reference and are smart to say "attributed to him," since your quotes are probably bogus. I'll just look at the first one. Jefferson didn't say "every citizen should be a soldier." He was speaking against "standing armies." Here is what Jefferson said, in context:

"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so."
--Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814. ME 14:184

If we didn't have a "standing army," we wouldn't really have a military would we? Is that what you are for?

BOB
"I think if Global Warming was really a crisis, then Al Gore would lower his carbon footprint to, say, only five times mine—and still use his wealth from his books and videos to buy carbon offsets."

DAR
Obviously, the science of climate change isn't based upon the size of Al Gore's carbon footprint, which is zero.
In your "I'm Tired" rant ( dismantled here) you claimed, with no basis whatsoever, to only have 5% of the carbon footprint of Al Gore. It was pointed out to you that no, his carbon foot print is zero, because he buys carbon offsets. Now you again erroneously claim his carbon footprint is greater than yours but this isn't good enough. He should do more. You apparently aren't aware that he donated the profit from his books and movie, to charity:

"Tipper and I are devoting 100 percent of the profits from the book and the movie to a new bipartisan educational campaign to further spread the message about global warming." Link

Know how to consistently know a conservative is lying? When you see them saying something about Al Gore, you can be confident they are lying.

BOB
"I think if profiling terrorists was really wrong, the Department of Homeland Security wouldn’t be profiling veterans who served the country as potential terrorists, instead of members of groups who have attacked America repeatedly over the past 30 years."

You mean right-wing terrorists? Would you like a list of them? Here is a list of 900 hate groups. Notice that they are almost all rightwing hate groups and overwhelmingly Christian.

This "bulletin" you speak of "was just one of several assessing various terrorism threats to our national security;..." And because "these bulletins were intended for local law-enforcement officials, they necessarily focused on domestic threats." Also, it's worth noting "that the bulletin was ordered by the Bush administration, well before Obama took office, and was conducted by Bush-hired intelligence specialists."

And note: "...the report only singles out returning veterans who become active in violent hate groups."

Source: http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert ... g-veterans

BOB
"I think while the President was apologizing to the French for America, he should have apologized to them for the mess we made landing in Normandy..."

DAR
If he had apologized, (he didn't of course) it would have been for GW Bush, and the apology would have been well deserved. The French were right to not invade a country over bogus charges, Bush was wrong. Here is what Obama actually said:

"We must be honest with ourselves," the president said. "In recent years, we've allowed our alliance to drift."

Obama said the United States was partly to blame because "there have been times where America's shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive" toward Europe. But he said Europe had to accept responsibility and make changes too.

"In Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans chose to blame America for much of what's bad," Obama said.

Both of these attitudes "do not represent the truth," Obama continued. "America is changing, but it cannot be America alone that changes." --ABC

BOB
"I think the media was desperate to make out the Tax Protest Tea Parties as small, irrelevant and composed only of right-wing extremists.

DAR
That didn't take much doing! They were small, irrelevant and filled to the brim with right-wing extremists. One of the clips I watched had the crowd chanting "Heads on stakes! Heads on stakes!" Is that extreme? Is that behavior to be proud of?

BOB
"I think there’s a philosophical reason... the President sees Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Hugo Chavez as fellow leaders he can work amiability[sic] with."

DAR
I think it is a good thing when the president of our country can work "amiably" with the elected leaders of other countries. I'm just funny that way I guess. Republicans could learn from that method. Hopefully it'll be a while before they have a chance.

BOB
"I think the people trying to prove the President was not born in the US are wasting their time. You could prove beyond doubt he was born on Mars and it wouldn’t matter. The courts would find a way to rule he qualified as a citizen..."

DAR
So it's a conspiracy and the courts will join in on it if necessary. At least you're not a nut Bob!

BOB
"I think feminists who said that women don’t lie about rape were awfully quiet when a woman accused Bill Clinton of raping her."

DAR
Maybe she shouldn't have waited 21 years to "sell" her story to the Wall Street Journal?

BOB
"And they are still pretty quiet about genital mutilation, honor killings, forced marriage of girl children, the burning of girls’ schools and the second class status of women under Shari’a law..."

DAR
Feminists are quiet about these things? Really? Do you know what a feminist is Bob?

BOB
"I think those who denigrate veterans do so because inside, they know they weren’t good enough to serve."

DAR
Who denigrates veterans Bob? Be specific. Bill O'Reilly said there are few if any homeless vets. There are about 200,000. Does that count? The Disabled Veteran group "DAV" rates politicians on how they vote in support of veterans issues in these categories:

* Budget
* Appropriations
* Amendments to increase funding
* Emergency supplemental funding for VA

They score each member 1 to 100.

McCain's score is 20.

What score does this non-partisan group give Barack Obama?

Barack's score is: 80

But you're a McCain supporter, facts be damned.

Source: http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_d ... ?r_id=3483

BOB
"I think both parties and all countries are trying to make political hay blaming the economic crisis on others. As a Republican, I tend to point to the Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac—and the documented efforts of Bush, McCain and others to regulate them better."

DAR
Yes Bush, he was big on advancing "regulation." What a load. Here's the debunk of this one:

"In 1999, former Senator Phil Gramm (who is, incidentally, Senator John McCain's economic adviser and cochairs his presidential campaign) set out to completely gut the Glass-Steagall Act, and did so successfully, replacing most of its components with the new Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act: allowing commercial banks, investment banks, and insurers to merge (which would have violated antitrust laws under Glass-Steagall). Sen. Gramm was the driving force behind the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, as he had received over $4.6 million from the FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance and Real Estate donations) over the previous decade, and once the Act passed, an influx of "megamergers" took place among banks and insurance and securities companies, as if they had been eagerly awaiting the passage of Gramm's Act. Everything in between Glass-Steagall and Gramm-Leach-Bliley (i.e. Savings and Loan crisis/bust) was, in large part, the incubation period for what would take place over the nine years that would follow the passage of Gramm's Act: an experiment in deregulation.

Shortly after George W. Bush was elected president, Congress and President Clinton were trying to pass a $384 billion omnibus spending bill, and while the debates swirled around the passage of this bill, Senator Phil Gramm clandestinely slipped a 262-page amendment into the omnibus appropriations bill titled: Commodity Futures Modernization Act. It is likely that few senators read this bill, if any. The essence of the act was the deregulation of derivatives trading (financial instruments whose value changes in response to the changes in underlying variables; the main use of derivatives is to reduce risk for one party). The legislation contained a provision -- lobbied for by Enron, a major campaign contributor to Gramm -- that exempted energy trading from regulatory oversight. Basically, it gave way to the Enron debacle and ushered in the new era of unregulated securities. Interestingly enough, Gramm's wife, Wendy, had been part of the Enron board, and her salary and stock income brought in between $900,000 and $1.8 million to the Gramm household, prior to the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act."

LINK

BOB
"I think there is a zero recidivism rate among people who have been executed."

DAR
Trouble is, there is also a zero exoneration rate for those who aren't guilty. Here is a list of the 131 people who have been exonerated since 1973. The most recent one was 10 days ago. Good thing we didn't kill him eh Bob?

The List

Hey Bob, what's the recidivism rate for people we lock up in maximum security and never let out? Zero. And it's cheaper. And when we find out they didn't do it, we can let them go and not be guilty of having had our government murder them on our behalf. I think that's better.

BOB
"I think folks who worry that gays getting married will hurt the institution of marriage must have pretty weak marriages themselves."

DAR
I am glad you are on the right side of this issue Bob. Hopefully you party will get a clue. It will all be moot very soon. The kids don't care. Their parents bigotry didn't stick. They make fun of the bigots, every night on The Daily Show. 10-20 years from now, anti-gay bigots will be viewed as people who think blacks should drink from a different water fountain. Why is it the conservatives are ALWAYS on the wrong side of these civil rights issues Bob?

BOB
"I think if Dan Quayle misspelling “potato” when reading from a card the school gave him proves he’s dumb, then Barack Obama saying he’d campaigned in 57 states, with one to go, proves the same thing about him..."

DAR
You leave out context and distort. I hadn't investigated this one before so I went and watched the video clip of Obama saying this. He clearly, obviously, misspoke and meant to say 47 states. This makes him "dumb?" He misstated one digit of a number? This is your BEST example?! Oh, it's your ONLY example. Got it. And you can make this charge after GW Bush?

Regarding Dan Quayle, he didn't just spell a simple word wrong (as we have all done), he went up to a grade school child at a spelling bee who had spelled the word potato correctly on the black board and he CORRECTED him telling the child he was wrong and needed to add an "e." That's a little different.

Well that was fun. Roast complete. Maybe you ought to send me these to fact check before you post them eh Bob? That's what "I think."

Darrel.

---
Update. Bob censored this post so I tried to post a link. We'll see if he's too afraid to allow that.

Update: He is too afraid to post a link.

BOB wrote:"I think there is a zero recidivism rate among people who have been executed."

DOUG
We discussed the death penalty in my Intro to Ethics class. I researched it a lot, and we read a couple of articles about it, one for and one against. Even the person who was for the death penalty admitted in his article that there is no statistical evidence that the death penalty serves as a deterrent.

In addition, the death penalty is used in only 1 to 2 percent of murder cases. The majority of murderers never face it.

There's a LOT more I could say on this issue...

The antithesis to the Old Jarhead - the impudent observer:

check it out

ON BEING 79
September 1st, 2009 by Fred Stopsky

I was conceived soon after the Stock Market crash of 1929 and arrived on the scene 79 years ago. My early memories of life reveal men repairing streets or artists entering our elementary school to paint beautiful images on the wall. I was raised in the south Bronx in a neighborhood inhabited by poor east European jews so I invariably break into laughter reading nuts on the Internet who rant about Jewish bankers. We were the only congressional district in America in which the Republican party came in fourth. I never had a Christian child in my class until the 7th grade when Joseph Jelik showed up.

I frequently tell my children that we had hope in the future and much credit for that attitude derives from President Roosevelt, his wife, Eleanor and our Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia. We actually believed those who led government would help us. We had caring Irish politicians who would help us get jobs, take care of minor criminal activities, and guide us through the process of politics and voting. I so miss Irish politicians, they never would rant and rave like the current crop of idiots in Congress.

I accepted poverty as a norm and today am furious when I hear people refer in disparaging terms to legal or illegal immigrants. I was raised with legal and illegal immigrants and laugh reading their grandchildren declaim on the horrors of illegals. I knew people who entered America via Canada or Cuba.

As an immigrant child (in 1914, one out of four Americans was an immigrant or child of an immigrant) I was taught to love America and respect its institutions. I felt so proud entering the armed forces taking the oath to defend the Constitution. Most haters in the Tea Party group have absolutely no idea what is in the Constitution. By the way, we received lectures during Basic Training about respecting the Geneva Convention. Obviously, since draft dodgers Bush and Cheney never served they never received the lectures about not torturing prisoners.

I grew up to write a history of America and my thoughts and dreams are always linked to this nation. I respect the basic values of freedom of speech and assembly. In my childhood I was bigoted against gays and lesbians and it has taken me years to confront my own bigotry and come to respect and admire lesbians and gays. I was raised in segregated world and while in the US Army helped write the integration plan for the US Seventh Army. I cried when Obama was elected.

Eighteen of my initial 20 years of life was under a Democratic president. Eisenhower became my first Republican president and I respected him, but today, the virulent hatred towards Clinton and Obama reveals an undercurrent of bigotry and hate such as we have not often seen in American history. Those of you who rant your hatred of the health insurance plan represent everything that violates the essential American respect for calm discussion.

I teach and always point out to students the following facts:
1. The Democratic Party is the oldest continuous political party in the world.
2. The Constitution is among the great documents in history and at the core of this wonderful document is respect for the views of those who you oppose– respect, not hate.
3. We never experienced a military attempt to overthrow our civilian government.
4. We only had one revolution –the Civil War– and after it was over, we again became one nation.

I confess to having a love affair with America. I confess the current madness of Tea Party crazies is shocking, given their ignorance. Actually, none of them has any understanding of the American Revolution– we Americans would never have won without aid from the French Army and navy– they were more important than “Minute Men.”

At age 79, I admire young people and their openness to those who are different. I admire those who fought for this nation in WWII and the Korean War. I feel such sorrow for those who served in the Vietnam war. I do not always agree with Barack Obama, but as an American I intend to give him an opportunity to develop plans of action.

I simply want an end to the hate of Fox News and the idiot group of Bill O’Reilly, Lou Dobbs, and Rush. I have never encountered such a group of men who deliberately lie. Doubt is a stranger who has never knocked on their doors. Frankly, the current yelling and screaming of Tea Party crazies makes me wonder if I am still living in my beloved America.

To sum up, I love this nation and am the first to decry mistakes by the man I voted for–Barack Obama. That is the American way of life. Do all I can to support the president, but tear him to pieces if he violates the Constitution. Be angry at oppression of poor people, the homeless and the powerless. I never forget the eloquent words of Eugene Victor Debs, candidate for president in 1912 on the Socialist Party ticket:
“I do not wish to rise from the working class. I wish to rise with the working class.”
If you are a real American you cannot sleep peacefully as long as your fellow Americans lack decent jobs, health care, free early childhood access and an end to discrimination. If you are a real American, reach out in love and peace and reconciliation to those with whom you differ

My heroes in America are: Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, Gene Debs, Franklin Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt, Harry Truman.

I hope one day to add Barack Obama to that list.

Darrel wrote: Regarding Dan Quayle, he didn't just spell a simple word wrong (as we have all done), he went up to a grade school child at a spelling bee who had spelled the word potato correctly on the black board and he CORRECTED him telling the child he was wrong and needed to add an "e." That's a little different.

Just a minor correction... it is important to note that despite what they teach you in grade school, the proper spelling of a word is not set in stone. One could argue that if a word is easily readable then it is spelled correctly as communication has been accomplished. At any rate the generally accepted "correct" spelling of a word certainly changes over time. As such, Dan Quayle did not misspell potatoe, or if you prefer, potato. You see I have a Webster's dictionary in which potato is spelled potatoe. Once upon a time in a land far away this was a common spelling of the word. It seems the only sense in which Quayle was mistaken was his implied assertion that there is a singular "correct" spelling of any given word.

Kevin

kwlyon wrote:You see I have a Webster's dictionary in which potato is spelled potatoe. Once upon a time in a land far away this was a common spelling of the word. It seems the only sense in which Quayle was mistaken was his implied assertion that there is a singular "correct" spelling of any given word. Kevin

DOUG
Sort of. Spelling changes do occur, and "potato" used to have two spellings, but the one with the "e" on the end has been superceded. Quayle did not keep up with the changes, most likely because he isn't much of a reader.

That said, Quayle is still an idiot. I used to have a "Quayle Wall of Shame" outside my office door. This was a set of quotations from Day Quayle showing what an moron he is. It was amusing, but at the same time a sad commentary on our country that we would put such a fool in high office.

Then GW Bush got in...

...and made Quayle look smart.

Darrel wrote:...and made Quayle look smart.

DOUG
No shit. Quayle was funny because nobody died due to his stupidity. GW Bush killed hundreds of thousands at least.

Stupid is no longer funny. Hence the death of Sarah Palin types in the national political sphere for decades. You can still find them among concentrations of idiots, such as you would expect to find in some Southern states...

The next Republican presidential nomination process will be fascinating to watch. You're going to have a large, rabid Sarah Palin contingent vs. whoever. Since there are so few adults left in the party the Sarah group is going to have a lot of sway. I think the Sarah people are going to be like the Hillary group was but 10x more fanatical and will be likely to take the ball and go home if Sarah isn't nominated.

tmiller51 wrote:I think the Sarah people are going to be like the Hillary group was but 10x more fanatical and will be likely to take the ball and go home if Sarah isn't nominated.

I bet not. I suspect that once the FAUX News talking heads stop whining about Palin's loss, it will take less than two days for the dittoheads to do whatever FAUX News tells them to do.