fayfreethinkers.com

DAR
I continue to respond to far right-wing material on Bob Hall's blog The Old Jarhead. Almost without exception my posts are relevant, substantive and well referenced. He censors/discards most of my posts but has put some up recently when I post anonymously rather than when I use my name (he had required me to use my name). This kind of censorship is common among the far right, unfortunately, so I knew to make copies. I will continue to post my responses to the disinformation on his blog, in this thread.

For more examples, see the thread on this forum entitled: "popular right-wing letter being forwarded around"

It's time to stand up to people who are devoted to using the internet to deliberately misinform people. I will take their disinformation and use it to inform other and myself (I often learn a lot when investigating rubbish).

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BOB posts:

A Prescription for American Health Care

"This is from Imprimis, a free monthly publication from Hillsdale College:

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp

I urge you to subscribe."
****

DAR
I was going through some old files yesterday and found an old issue of Imprimis I had saved from 1995. That's how long I have subscribed. And I read every issue. It's all rightwing, all the time. No exceptions. No dissenting opinion allowed. Ever.

What a way to run a school eh?

This article is fairly reasonable compared to their usual material.

GM can't compete partly because they spend more on health care than they do on steel. None of this emphasis on private markets "are going to save us" is believable anymore. The chickens Hillary spoke of in '92 have all come home to roost and they have multiplied. It's gotten so bad even a slim majority of doctors are for single payer instead of the god awful train wreck we have now.

My how times have changed.

Hillsdale college and the ultra-conservative ideology they represent is more irrelevant and unbelievable than perhaps any other time in their 165 year history.

D.

You should pop around to all his blogging friends' sites and post a short update: You've been submitting responses, he censors them when he knows they're you, and you're posting them here. See if they're willing to play in a forum that doesn't make a farce of the ideals of the First Amendment.

DAR
Excellent suggestion SAV.

Now I roast The Old Jarhead who likes to censor dissenting opinion.

**********
A Prescription for American Health Care

Quote:
"...for Social Security to be financially sound, the federal government should have $100 trillion—a sum of money six-and-a-half times the size of our entire economy—in the bank and earning interest right now. But it doesn't."

DAR Response:
I have several hundred thousand dollars of debt for various real estate properties. Over the rest of my life I will incur several more hundreds of thousands of dollars of expenses and debt. Is this a problem? Well, if we were to say I owed all this money right now, yeah, that would be a problem. But that's ridiculous. Who would say something so stupid? I don't owe the money right now, and neither does the government.

Looking at long term liabilities and pretending they are all owed now, or claiming you are "not financially sound" because you don't currently have money in the bank to pay (projected) future bills, is stupidity on stilts.

How is this not really, really, obvious?

D.
LINK

The Kind of Guy I Am

BOB
"I’m a history-is-important kind of guy."

DAR
That's good. And it's important to not distort history.

BOB
"I hadn’t yet bought into all the scientists predicting global cooling back in the 1970s before the switched to predicting global warming."

DAR
But they didn't predict this, not even close. This is a myth passed around in some circles. Note:

"While it is true that there were some predictions of an "imminent ice age" in the 1970's, a very cursory comparison of then and now reveals a huge difference.

Today, you have a widespread scientific consensus supported by national academies and all the major scientific institutions solidly behind the warning that the temperature is rising, anthropogenic CO2 is the primary cause and the warming will worsen unless we reduce emissions. On the other hand, in the 1970's, there was a book (one) in the popular press, a few articles in popular magazines (Newsweek), and a small amount of scientific speculation based on the recently discovered glacial cycles and the recent slight cooling trend from air pollution blocking the sunlight. There were no daily headlines. There was no avalanche of scientific articles. There were no United Nations treaties or commissions. No G8 summits on the dangers and possible solutions. No institutional pronouncements.

Quite simply, there is no comparison."

LINK

For a more in depth examination, see:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=94

http://tartanmarine.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... ampus.html

LUCKY
"The idea that guns somehow are evil and them just merely being around will cause harm is bogus. Its like me thinking that ooohhh people are killed by cars. Maybe we should make our cars and neighborhoods car free zones so those evil nasty cars don't kill anyone. This is flawed thinking but is used by those who seek to outlaw firearms."

DAR
People are killed by cars. If we didn't have cars, people wouldn't be killed by them. That's not flawed thinking, that's the way it is.

We find the benefits of automobiles is worth the 30,000 deaths they cause per year. Guns in the US kill a similar amount.

Most of our peer countries allow guns but have stricter regulations and control. This allows them to have far better gun mortality statistics than we do.

Example:

"In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand, 15 in Japan, 30 in Great Britain, 106 in Canada and 9,390 in the United States."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/fact ... =firefacts

And:

“…the rate of firearm deaths among children under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries COMBINED. American children are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die in a firearm accident than children in these other countries.”

--Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related deaths among children in 26 industrialized countries. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 1997; 46 :101 –105

Link: http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00046149.htm

etc.

http://tartanmarine.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... words.html

Sowell says in the above article:

"It is even more painfully obvious that "gun control" laws do not control guns. The District of Columbia's very strong laws against gun ownership have done nothing to stop the high murder rate in Washington."

DAR
Sowell didn't come up with this example, it's an old chestnut gun proponents like to pass around. What he doesn't mention of course is that the reason gun laws are so easily subverted and nullified in his cherry picked example of Washington D.C. (not a city, not a state and a huge transient population) is due to the US's completely uneven patch work of gun laws. It's so bad as to be a farce. In many southern states, any one can back up a pickup truck to a sales table at a gun show and buy all manner of guns new and used, cash down, no background check, no receipt, no registration, no transaction record, no identification whatsoever.

They can be a felon, a terrorist, a prison escapee or they can be insane. And they can drive to Washington D.C..

Note:

"In 2004, firearms were used to murder 56 people in Australia, 184 people in Canada, 73 people in England and Wales, 5 people in New Zealand, and 37 people in Sweden.
In comparison, firearms were used to murder 11,344 in the United States."
--WISQARS, Injury Mortality Reports.

Interesting that gun control laws work in other countries which do have nationwide laws.

Posted to:

http://tartanmarine.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... rture.html:

BOB
"Suppose the innocent life to be saved is your son or daughter, your wife or husband, your mother or father. I have the prisoner here, who has the information that will save the life of the person you love the most. He won’t talk. What are your orders, sir?"

DAR
Follow the rule of law. We are America, the beacon of light on the hill. We don't set our standards to match the immoral or non-existent values of the ragtag guttersnipe terrorist.

Or at least we didn't use to.

As one fellow once said:

"The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiations of the Convention [Against Torture]. It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today," - president Ronald Reagan, 1988.

"Notice his clear stand not just against torture but also against "other inhuman treatment or punishment" as well. And now think what Bush and Cheney have done to the honor or reputation of the United States and the integrity of the conservative soul."

LINK

Guess who said this:

"On United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, the United States reaffirms its commitment to the worldwide elimination of torture. Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right, and we are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law…Throughout the world, there are many who have been seeking to have their voices heard, to stand up for their right to freedom, and to break the chains of tyranny. Too many of those courageous women and men are paying a terrible price for their brave acts of dissent. Many have been detained, arrested, thrown in prison, and subjected to torture by regimes that fail to understand that their habits of control will not serve them well in the long-term." — June 26, 2005

Answer: GW Bush.

LINK

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Also added to this thread:

“I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment.“

George W. Bush
June 26, 2003
Statement for the
United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture

Ronald Reagan signed the UN Convention on Torture in 1984, outlawing torture.

In his signing statement, Reagan affirmed:

“Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution."

DAR
I agree with Gingrich on torture:

*****
Gingrich Condemned Torture In '97: Violates The "Foundation Of American Values"

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: OCTOBER 30, 1997

SPEAKER'S STATEMENT ON VISIT OF PRESIDENT JIANG
Washington, D.C. -- House Speaker Newt Gingrich released the following statement today following his meeting with Chinese President Jiang Zemin.

"As I said in China this spring, there is no place for abuse in what must be considered the family of man. There is no place for torture and arbitrary detention. There is no place for forced confessions. There is no place for intolerance of dissent." "While we walked through the Rotunda. I explained to President Jiang how the roots of American rule of law go back more than 700 years, to the signing of the Magna Carta. The foundation of American values, therefore, is not a passing priority or a temporary trend."

LINK

DAR
Added this to Bob's thread Revisiting Torture:

***
I was listening to a talk radio show the other day and a marine called in. He didn't say much, he just read a little from the marine handbook on how to treat/handle prisoners. It was powerful. He was getting choked up and it was obviously a source of pride that we would have such civilized and humanitarian rules for handling the enemy.

These are rules a country can be proud of.

Conservatives like to talk about principles a lot. If you don't hold to your principles when they are put to the test, they aren't really principles, are they.

D.

Darrel wrote:DAR
Added this to Bob's thread Revisiting Torture:

***
I was listening to a talk radio show the other day and a marine called in. He didn't say much, he just read a little from the marine handbook on how to treat/handle prisoners. It was powerful. He was getting choked up and it was obviously a source of pride that we would have such civilized and humanitarian rules for handling the enemy.

These are rules a country can be proud of.

Conservatives like to talk about principles a lot. If you don't hold to your principles when they are put to the test, they aren't really principles, are they.

D.

All,

I will bring my copy to the next meeting and show what Marines / soldiers are suppose know/do when it comes to taking a POW. We were trained on this on a regular schedule I believe every 6 months. I hate it when people like Tartanmarine talk about things they obviously know nothing about. He may have been in the Marine Corps but that does not mean he learned anything while he was there. I knew all kinds of Marines like this yahoo and they never last very long. They usually get mad because they think they are smatter than everyone else around them and it becomes very obvious very quickly. Then they end up making everyone else as misearable as possible and count down the days until they get out. Then they spend the rest of there lives telling anyone who will listen, except other Marines, what a damn war hero they were.

Darrel wrote:Almost without exception my posts are relevant, substantive and well referenced. He censors/discards most of my posts but has put some up recently when I post anonymously rather than when I use my name (he had required me to use my name). This kind of censorship is common among the far right, unfortunately, so I knew to make copies.

I've noticed that censorship. I had encountered it recently when I tried to engage a harrison christian blogger in a friendly blogwar. My blog buddies and I commented on a couple of his articles and he deleted every comment. Then, he left a comment on my blog accusing me of attacking him. Hey, he could have had some great blog traffic, but now his blog is sweltering under three weeks of no new articles. (I secretly entertained the idea of deleting his comment.)

Hey, Tartanmarine's blog looks like mine! Same scheme. Same first name. Coincidence? I'd like to think so.

RobertMadewell wrote: I've noticed that censorship.

DAR
These people are intellectual cowards. They are afraid of... ideas. Terrified. Scared shitless. This is really pathetic. They like to tell comfortable lies and tickle each others ears with nonsense and I have had it with them pretending their junk is defensible. If people want to stay home and say stupid things, fine. But if they are going to go in a public forum where comments are allowed, I am going to roast them, to a crisp. I have had it with people using the internet to make people more stupid.

I am working on this one right now. She says she will never censor me. She's a right wing nut (on earth day she tried to use as much energy as possible), but an English teacher so while she doesn't think very clearly, she does know how to write and express herself.

D.

Old Jarhead Bob:
An Unimpressive First 100 Days

DAR
It would be nice if a person could read such an article and then give a comment that wasn't in complete knee jerk, goose step, ass kissing agreement.

But you would censor such a post.

So I'll just point out that Republicans John McGlaughlin and Pat Buchanan both give Obama an "A" on his first 100 days.

Oh, and the Gallop poll yesterday has his approval at 68%.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallu ... roval.aspx

Considering that about 25% of the country is (like you) right-wing insane, he's doing pretty darn good with the group that hasn't made themselves politically irrelevant.

D.
----------------------
Cross posted to a forum that doesn't run from free speech (but does enjoy pointing out how you do): Link

Darrel wrote:Oh, and the Gallop poll yesterday has his approval at 68%.

DOUG
The right-wingers are pretending that Obama is very UNpopular. In fact, they are saying that Obama is the 4th most unpopular president, or something like that. All lies.

As if their credibility was not already low...

More mindless anti GW stuff from The Old Jarhead:

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"the National Center for Policy analysis"

DAR
All rightwing, all the time. This is why you get the wrong answers Bob. Garbage in, garbage out. For a mainstream publication, the WSJ has a long record of being notoriously dishonest with regard to climate science. I could give you many examples but you wouldn't read them because you are afraid. They can't be trusted and they don't acknowledge their errors.

Kind of like you!

You really shouldn't try to say anything about the global warming issue. You can defend none of it, and it just makes you look silly.

cheerios,

D.

ps. You censor posts like a commie, but I am finding that many of your blog friends don't. This is a good thing.

pss. Now who is the roach scurrying away and who has their hand on the light switch, eh?

Cross posted of course.

GW on the Rocks

Jarhead Post:
For more on Global Warming Science:
http://environment.ncpa.org/issues/?c=science

*****
Why would someone recommend a rightwing political think tank that has a political agenda but no climate scientists?

Wouldn't it make more sense to recommend people go to one of the many great science sites run by climatologists?

That is, if one is interested in learning accurate information.

Oops. Wrong blog for that!

Hey, it's rainy and cool here today. Maybe you guys are on to something. Yesterday it was almost 90 degrees. It's so confusing. Maybe I'll read a Plains Reporter newspaper headline. They wouldn't be wrong about climate science.

Fresh JARHEAD POST:

JAR
Here’s the solution to closing Gitmo—or not.

Present a bill to the Congress. If they vote yes, and Gitmo closes, one or more of the terrorists will be placed in a halfway house at government expense, within five miles of the home of every Senator and Congressmen who votes “yes.” If they vote the bill down, Gitmo stays open, we continue locking up the murdering bastards there and move on.

DAR
"...we continue locking up the murdering bastards there..."

True patriots (as opposed to counterfeits) know there is something profoundly unamerican about locking up people for being "murdering bastards" before actually demonstrating that they are guilty of being "murdering bastards."

It's called due process. It's in the constitution. Perhaps you should read it.

The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...”

The Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...”

D.

JARHEAD POST

Obama says in his White House, they are celebrating Cinco de Mayo (Mexico’s Fifth of May holiday) a day early—call it “Cinco De Quattro.” (Fifth of Fourth!).

The media never let Dan Quayle forget he misspelled “potato” as “potatoe”—from a card the school gave him spelling it that way.

BO can campaign in 57 states, refer to the non-existent “Austrian” language, give the PM of the UK DVDs he can’t play on the British system, and anything else, and the media still says he’s a genius.

DAR
The fact that this nonsense is the BEST shit you have to throw at president Obama shows just how weak your position is.

Incidentally, multi-region DVD players are common in the UK (Amazon sells them, for example), and it's easy to get the codes to make most DVD players region free (legally).

Keep the spitballs coming.

JAR
"The media never let Dan Quayle forget he misspelled “potato” as “potatoe”—from a card the school gave him spelling it that way."

DAR
Here's what we know for sure:

Dan Quayle doesn't know how to spell "potato." We know this because if you know how to spell "potato," you don't tell a kid to get up, go to the chalkboard and *incorrectly* spell a word (at a spelling bee) after he just spelled it correctly. And you don't do this with cameras rolling. And I don't care if you have a card in your hand that has it spelled wrong.

If you know how to spell it, you know it's wrong.

But the really interesting part is the hypocrisy. Oh how I love republican hypocrisy in the morning!

Rather than take "personal responsibility" for the vice president not knowing how to spell potato, marine Bob BLAMES SOMEONE ELSE! It's not Quayle's fault. Oh no. Someone else made him do it.

Funny.

To Dan Quayle's credit, he acknowledges that his career never recovered from this blunder (which wasn't his fault of course).

TARTAN: "So the tens of thousands of Nazi soldiers Roosevelt locked up during WWII were entitled to due process and a trial..."

DAR
Absolutely. It's how civilized nations conduct themselves. What happened to those soldiers Bob? Were they locked up for life without due process?

TARTAN: "The United States constitution applies to US Citizens..."

DAR
The United States constitution is the law of our land and our system of government and it specifically *does not* say "US Citizens" it specifically says "ALL PERSONS."

Funny how you want to interpret the constitution so literally until it goes against an emotional feeling or a personal doctrine, then suddenly we are to believe you can't understand plain English.

LUCKY: "They are not criminals or anything like that."

DAR
Well they may be criminals, or they may have been turned in by an enemy for a ransom. We have a long established way of determining which is the case. It's called due process and without we make ourselves no better than the countries we demonize as evil for having gulags.

JARHEAD
As I understand it, the school gave Quayle a card with the word spelled “potatoe." He showed it to the teachers standing next to him, and they shrugged, so he read it the way they gave it to him. The reporters on there went and looked it up before they reported it, because they were not completely sure either. And his career was destroyed by the media harping on this little mistake, as the person who posted above notes. (Probably the Canadian piano tuner, now in disguise.)

DAR
No, that's not how it went down. This article gives Quayle's version from his own book. It is as the "anon" person above, said.

***
William Figueroa, 12, a sixth-grader from the Mott School in the South Ward who had been bused to Munoz Rivera to take part in the vice presidential event.

Figueroa knew how to spell potato, and he wrote it in a legible script on the blackboard when Quayle announced his word for the spelling bee.

Quayle looked at the blackboard, then at his contest card, and gently and quietly told the boy, "You’re close, but you left a little something off. The e on the end.

"So William, against his better judgment and trying to be polite, added an e’’ and won applause for it from those assembled in the classroom, including Mayor Doug Palmer, Quayle wrote.

The misspelling wasn’t mentioned until the end of the press conference afterward, when one reporter asked Quayle, "How do you spell potato?’’

"I gave him a puzzled look, and then the press started laughing. It wasn’t until that moment that I realized anything was wrong,’’ Quayle wrote."

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1992.html

***
TART: "Probably the Canadian piano tuner, now in disguise."

DAR
You asked that Canadian piano tuner to give his name. When he did you began censoring 100% of his posts. So he tried posting anonymously. It worked about 1/2 the time. You told him to "stand up for his beliefs." When he did, you ran from allowing his comments to be considered by censoring them.

That Canadian piano tuner doesn't care in the slightest if his name is used or not. State your rules, for everyone, and he will no doubt follow them.