fayfreethinkers.com

It's not April 1st. This appears to be for real. You may spectulate regarding his reasons.

His mental disease is worsening?
He is deeply scared of Negroes?

"In Pennsylvania’s Democrat primary for president: Vote for Clinton

Sunday, April 20, 2008

For decades, the two major parties have chosen their presidential candidates long before Pennsylvania holds its primary.

Not this year.

Ron Paul’s maverick candidacy aside, Republicans have settled on John McCain, whom we previously endorsed. Democrats, however, are still deciding.

For once, the Keystone State might well determine a party’s nominee.

If Barack Obama does well here or pulls an upset, the Democrats’ leader in states, delegates and popular votes could be propelled to de facto victory.

If Hillary Clinton wins as expected, she should be able to fight on to the convention — and a double-digit victory might give her momentum to seize the nomination.

For Pennsylvania Democrats, the smart choice Tuesday is Mrs. Clinton.
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I'm reasonably sure I remember Scaife actually apologizing to the Clintons either in late 2006 or some time in 2007, but I can't find it now. Considering what W has been up to, I don't see a problem with that. Many a filthy rich person is beginning to see that the long-term effects of neoconism is going to be really bad for their personal fortunes. If Scaife was smart enough to see that before the subprime crisis, more power to him.

Maybe its not too surprising. It would be much more surprising if he supported Obama, who on the whole, is Left of Hillary. Especially these days when to beat him, she has gone pro-gun, pro-Jesus, and "Patriotic".

Tony wrote:...to beat him, she has gone pro-gun, pro-Jesus, and "Patriotic".

DAR
Just curious, how does Hillary's position on guns differ from Obama's?

How did you learn that she loves Jesus more than Obama?

And what type of measuring cup did you use to discern her to be more "patriotic" than he?

A politician posturing as patriotic? During an election. What's up with that? Is she trying to win or something? Oh yes I see, you say she is trying "to beat him."

Well that is the goal of this part of the process isn't it?

D.

Dar wrote:

Just curious, how does Hillary's position on guns differ from Obama's?

How did you learn that she loves Jesus more than Obama?

And what type of measuring cup did you use to discern her to be more "patriotic" than he?

A politician posturing as patriotic? During an election. What's up with that? Is she trying to win or something? Oh yes I see, you say she is trying "to beat him."

Well that is the goal of this part of the process isn't it?

I'm referring to the comments and posturing she made to highlight Obama's "bitter" remarks. Their positions do not differ substantially on guns, as far as I know, or Jesus (who knows what the hell they really believe. Being religious is the latest fashion among Dems...they are not targeting us freethinker voters you know). As for patriotism, I am referring specifically to Bill saying something along the lines of "It'll be great to have two patriotic Americans running for President" like Hillary and McCain, but not, of course, Obama.

I'm just taking a little dig at my fellow lefty friends on here who support Hillary as she does her little PR anti-Obama hit job by trying to out pro-gun, pro-Jesus, pro-flag wave, Obama. Come on, did you not find that postuing hillarious? Aggavating? Frustrating? Condescending? I thought it, and my little dig, was funny.

Yep, winning is everything, and politicians will do anything. I'm waiting for Obama to put that flag pin back on since Hillary and the Republicans have been beating him with it. He tried to take an unpopular stand, and defend it.....silly Obama. He keeps trying to inject honesty and integrity and frank discussion of contentious issues into this campaign. Americans don't want that. You have to play the game. Puppeteers pulling strings. He'll learn....and start being a typical full of shit politician like Hillary and McCain. Just gotta give him time.

Tony wrote:Yep, winning is everything, and politicians will do anything. I'm waiting for Obama to put that flag pin back on since Hillary and the Republicans have been beating him with it. He tried to take an unpopular stand, and defend it.....silly Obama. He keeps trying to inject honesty and integrity and frank discussion of contentious issues into this campaign. Americans don't want that. You have to play the game. Puppeteers pulling strings. He'll learn....and start being a typical full of shit politician like Hillary and McCain. Just gotta give him time.

DOUG
I guess Obama will lose his angel wings over this...

Doug:

I guess Obama will lose his angel wings over this...

He's in serious trouble. He's is taking such a beating in the press, its astounding. It's largely a completely BS beating I think, chalk full of racism, and political opportunism. I don't know how he can survive. The only way I think, seriously, that he can win the Presidency is if he starts playing the game.

Now, as you know, I am much further to the Left than Obama. He won me over because of his integrity and his gumption. I have never seen a finer or more honest, or a braver speech from a politician in my lifetime of being a political junkie than his speech on race when Rev. Wright first popped up. That was fantastic. It didn't work, he should have done what every politician does, throw Wright under the bus immediately, and tell lies, cliches, and sweet nothings to the public. But he didn't. You'll get killed for that sort of thing in this country. We don't want or deserve honest, decent politicians. This proves that once again. It's a sad fading Republic we live in, full of idiots and racists.

Yeah, when he starts playing the game, I'll sure lose my enthusiasm for him. Mostly, I'll just become even more cynical about democracy than I already am.

How is that for being chipper?

How did Springfest go anyway?

Tony wrote:
He's in serious trouble. He's is taking such a beating in the press, its astounding. It's largely a completely BS beating I think, chalk full of racism, and political opportunism. I don't know how he can survive. The only way I think, seriously, that he can win the Presidency is if he starts playing the game.

Hint: He's been playing the game all along. Part of his game is that he was not playing it, as in McCain's "Straight Talk Express" pretends he doesn't flip flop or lie.

Tony wrote: Now, as you know, I am much further to the Left than Obama. He won me over because of his integrity and his gumption. I have never seen a finer or more honest, or a braver speech from a politician in my lifetime of being a political junkie than his speech on race when Rev. Wright first popped up. That was fantastic. It didn't work, he should have done what every politician does, throw Wright under the bus immediately, and tell lies, cliches, and sweet nothings to the public. But he didn't. You'll get killed for that sort of thing in this country.

How about telling the truth and then throwing Wright under the bus?

At first, Obama lied and said that he had never heard Wright say those kinds of things. When people started checking and finding out otherwise, Obama then claimed that Wright was just being that kind of Black preacher that says those kinds of things, and white people don't understand what he is really saying. It's not unpatriotic, that's just the way he talks, was the claim. I guess it was like "jive talk": nonBlacks could not understand it, nor are they meant to.

Now that Wright has made it clear that he really is a nutcase, Obama says that he disagrees with Wright and that Wright has changed in the last 20 years. This isn't the person Obama met 20 years ago. OK, but is he the same as he was 15 years ago? 10 years ago? 5 years ago? Did Obama not go to church in the last 20 years?

Obama played this like a standard politician, seeing what worked and then cranking up the denial when previous attempts failed. He is a typical politician, part of the Chicago machine, and tied to a lunatic preacher that cares more about himself than about Obama's candidacy.

Tony wrote: We don't want or deserve honest, decent politicians. This proves that once again. It's a sad fading Republic we live in, full of idiots and racists.

It has always been full of those, and it continues to be. But if you set the bar too high you get worse than idiots. (cf. Nader leading to Bush!) We get the government we deserve. Bush appealed to the morons by being a moron, and he stole a close election. (Twice, in my opinion.)

Tony wrote: Yeah, when he starts playing the game, I'll sure lose my enthusiasm for him. Mostly, I'll just become even more cynical about democracy than I already am.

How is that for being chipper?

Democracy is government by the people, and people are mostly stupid and ignorant. So that is what you get. But it beats monarchy, so we are stuck with it. The best we can do is fight the good fight and promote education.

Tony wrote:How did Springfest go anyway?

Excellent. We sold a lot of bumper stickers, roasted a few fundies, and generally kicked ass. A good day all around.

Doug

Hint: He's been playing the game all along. Part of his game is that he was not playing it, as in McCain's "Straight Talk Express" pretends he doesn't flip flop or lie.

Democracy means selling yourself to idiots who would rather hear what they want to hear than anything substantial. But are you really, REALLY, going to say that Obama has as little integrity as Hillary or McCain, or any other mainstream politician? That stretches credulity. He's pretty new at the game, thus hasn't even had the chance to be as loathesome as others. He may turn out to be, I don't deny that possibility. But in this campaign, despite, yes, playing the game, he has done so with much more credibility, integrity, and I think honesty than anyone else. Especially that goddamn Hillary Clinton.
Hint: Thats why he has produced a veritable WAVE of new voters, first time voters, especially from Generation X and younger who previously saw this shit as the shit it is, and were cynical and apathetic.

Now that Wright has made it clear that he really is a nutcase,

This is the much more important issue I think. How is it that he is a nutcase exactly? Is it because he's a scary black guy? Did you listen to him on PBS? Sounded pretty damn sane to me. He has his history right for the most part. He's mad at America for all the right reasons, as far as I've seen. In fact, for most of the very same reasons you and I have participated in the same demonstration for. Now, that AIDS-government plot assertion lacks credibility, and evidence I'll grant you, but remember, this is a black man who lived through times when blacks were terrorised by the government. And they DID do Syphilis testing on black guinea pigs. And what about the other 99% of what he says, how is that crazy?
He does believe in God, and that makes all religious folks 'crazy' in my opinion, but other than that, what is this craziness of which you and every white person I know, especially conservatives and racists, keep speaking (No, I'm not trying to imply you are a racist...I know you better than that)?

Tony wrote: But are you really, REALLY, going to say that Obama has as little integrity as Hillary or McCain, or any other mainstream politician? That stretches credulity.

DOUG
I don't know much about him, so I am not in a position to say whether he has more or less integrity than other politicians. I can't just go on what he says, since his rhetoric is pretty much the same as most other politicians who want "change."

Tony wrote:
Hint: Thats why he has produced a veritable WAVE of new voters, first time voters, especially from Generation X and younger who previously saw this shit as the shit it is, and were cynical and apathetic.

The question is, are they going to stick around if Obama does not get the nomination.

Now that Wright has made it clear that he really is a nutcase,

Tony wrote: This is the much more important issue I think. How is it that he is a nutcase exactly? Is it because he's a scary black guy? Did you listen to him on PBS? Sounded pretty damn sane to me.

DOUG
Yes, the toned it down for that occasion. He's a nutcase for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that he said that the U.S. gov't created AIDS to kill black people.

Tony wrote: Now, that AIDS-government plot assertion lacks credibility, and evidence I'll grant you, but remember, this is a black man who lived through times when blacks were terrorised by the government. And they DID do Syphilis testing on black guinea pigs. And what about the other 99% of what he says, how is that crazy?

It's crazy because it is so stupid. There is no evidence that it is true, AND AIDS/HIV does not target people according to race. He also probably believes that KFC puts something in the chicken to sterilize African-American males. A huge percentage of AA men actually believe this.

Tony wrote:
He does believe in God, and that makes all religious folks 'crazy' in my opinion, but other than that, what is this craziness of which you and every white person I know, especially conservatives and racists, keep speaking (No, I'm not trying to imply you are a racist...I know you better than that)?

DOUG
There are plenty of good, intelligent African-American people who could be respectable leaders in the African-American community (Tavis Smiley, Colin Powell, scores of others), but the AA community will continue to be put down as long as they allow fools like Farrakhan and Wright to take center stage and purport to speak for that community and espouse their hatred and lunacy.

Wright has proved in recent days that he is just another in a long line of opportunists who want to lead the AA community even if they have no idea where to lead it.

Plato's parable of the pilot in action....

Aside from which, Hillary is at least as ethical as, and by her voting record and record of bills sponsored slighty more progress than, Obama - and while I'm not a Methodist (or a member of any Christian faith), Hillary seems to live her faith (you know, the part about "I was hungry and you fed me... She truly believes the rich were given their riches to do good with - which of course, by Freethinker standards makes her nuttier than Rev. Wright). Molly Ivins first characterized Hillary as a "do-gooder Methodist" and said the only problem with her was that she thought the rest of us should be, too. The main things I've had against Obama (yes, I will vote for him if he wins) are that he uses RW talking points (example, Social Security in trouble) and the RW-style character assassination job he's done on Hillary. I expected the Rs to pull that crap, but Obama's people have been even heavier - and since, Dems, more believable - at taking comments out of context and then screaming how she's "throwing the kitchen sink" at Obama. The "elitist" routine is an example. She was asked if Obama was an elitist (regarding the religion and guns comment) and she replied that his comments could be taken as elitist. Another is when someone said Obama was Muslim, she replied, "Not that I'm aware of." - the fact that she didn't immediately jump all over the questioner in support of Obama and just made disclaimers before trying to move back to whatever topic she was speaking on is Obama-supporter evidence that she's called Obama an elitist and a Muslim. She'll be his defender if he wins the nomination (she's already said so more than once) but she has no reason to be right now - she's trying to beat him in the nomination race. If Obama stops the RW crap (the "Rove playbook" he keeps accusing her of using), I'll feel a whole lot better if I end up having to vote for him.