Liberal Hatemongers

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John Galt

Liberal Hatemongers

Post by John Galt »

This just in- Liberals Hate more than Conservatives! No surprise on this board- the close-minded people on this board never fail to amuse me. :)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120053277483496183.html

Liberal Hatemongers

By ARTHUR C. BROOKS
The Wall Street Journal
January 17, 2008; Page A16
A politically progressive friend of mine always seemed to root against baseball teams from the South. The Braves, the Rangers, the Astros -- he hated them all. I asked him why, to which he replied, "Southerners are prejudiced."

The same logic is evident in the complaint the American political left has with conservative voters. According to the political analysis of filmmaker Michael Moore, whose perception of irony apparently does not extend to his own words, "The right wing, that is not where America's at . . . It's just a small minority of people who hate. They hate. They exist in the politics of hate . . . They are hate-triots."

What about liberals? According to University of Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone, "Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others." They also "believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference." Indeed, generations of academic scholars have assumed that the "natural personality" of political conservatives is characterized by hostile intolerance towards those with opposing viewpoints and lifestyles, while political liberals inherently embrace diversity.

As we are dragged through another election season, it is worth critically reviewing these stereotypes. Do the data support the claim that conservatives are haters, while liberals are tolerant of others? A handy way to answer this question is with what political analysts call "feeling thermometers," in which people are asked on a survey to rate others on a scale of 0-100. A zero is complete hatred, while 100 means adoration. In general, when presented with people or groups about which they have neutral feelings, respondents give temperatures of about 70. Forty is a cold temperature, and 20 is absolutely freezing.

In 2004, the University of Michigan's American National Election Studies (ANES) survey asked about 1,200 American adults to give their thermometer scores of various groups. People in this survey who called themselves "conservative" or "very conservative" did have a fairly low opinion of liberals -- they gave them an average thermometer score of 39. The score that liberals give conservatives: 38. Looking only at people who said they are "extremely conservative" or "extremely liberal," the right gave the left a score of 27; the left gives the right an icy 23. So much for the liberal tolerance edge.

Some might argue that this is simply a reflection of the current political climate, which is influenced by strong feelings about the current occupants of the White House. And sure enough, those on the extreme left give President Bush an average temperature of 15 and Vice President Cheney a 16. Sixty percent of this group gives both men the absolute lowest score: zero.

To put this into perspective, note that even Saddam Hussein (when he was still among the living) got an average score of eight from Americans. The data tell us that, for six in ten on the hard left in America today, literally nobody in the entire world can be worse than George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

This doesn't sound very tolerant to me -- nor especially rational, for that matter. To be fair, though, let's roll back to a time when the far right was accused of temporary insanity: the late Clinton years, when right-wing pundits practically proclaimed the end of Western civilization each night on cable television because President Clinton had been exposed as a perjurious adulterer.

In 1998, Bill Clinton and Al Gore were hardly popular among conservatives. Still, in the 1998 ANES survey, Messrs. Clinton and Gore both received a perfectly-respectable average temperature of 45 from those who called themselves extremely conservative. While 28% of the far right gave Clinton a temperature of zero, Gore got a zero from just 10%. The bottom line is that there is simply no comparison between the current hatred the extreme left has for Messrs. Bush and Cheney, and the hostility the extreme right had for Messrs. Clinton and Gore in the late 1990s.

Does this refute the stereotype that right-wingers are "haters" while left-wingers are not? Liberals will say that the comparison is unfair, because Mr. Bush is so much worse than Mr. Clinton ever was. Yes, Mr. Clinton may have been imperfect, but Mr. Bush -- whom people on the far left routinely compare to Hitler -- is evil. This of course destroys the liberal stereotype even more eloquently than the data. The very essence of intolerance is to dehumanize the people with whom you disagree by asserting that they are not just wrong, but wicked.

In the end, we have to face the fact that political intolerance in America -- ugly and unfortunate on either side of the political aisle -- is to be found more on the left than it is on the right. This may not square with the moral vanity of progressive political stereotypes, but it's true.

Mr. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Public Affairs and a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, is the author of the forthcoming book "Gross National Happiness."
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Re: Liberal Hatemongers

Post by Doug »

John Galt wrote:In 2004, the University of Michigan's American National Election Studies (ANES) survey asked about 1,200 American adults to give their thermometer scores of various groups. People in this survey who called themselves "conservative" or "very conservative" did have a fairly low opinion of liberals -- they gave them an average thermometer score of 39. The score that liberals give conservatives: 38. Looking only at people who said they are "extremely conservative" or "extremely liberal," the right gave the left a score of 27; the left gives the right an icy 23. So much for the liberal tolerance edge.
DOUG
Yes, the right wingers are hatemongers and the lefties are not.

The right hates people for what they ARE (e.g., dark-skinned, female, Arab, etc.). The left hates people for what they DO (e.g., starting a needless war, killing innocent people, lying to the country, etc.).

One can also see the difference in how the hate influences the politics. The left hate needless wars, so they try to stop them. They don't try to ban people who start needless wars. The left hates politicians who lie to the American people about spying on us, etc., so they try to hold them accoutable. The right wingers hate brown people so they want to build a fence to keep them out. It is pure racism (it is not national security). The right hate women's rights, so they try to limit access to abortion, or even ban it (they are not pro-life).

The left wants to govern from accountability and compassion. The right wants to govern from fear and hatred.
John Galt

Lover of wisdom..........Right!

Post by John Galt »

Doug- you have truly lost it. You are the most close minded genius I have ever seen. I do not hate you, or women or brown/ black people or anything else.

To oppose abortion is not to hate women. To be in favor of enforcing immigration laws is to be in favor of the rule of law- not hating brown people.

Get a grip- the author of this article is a real academic that did real research. Liberals hate. You and Darrel are proof positive.

You are a small-minded loud mouth with a terrible attitude and an empty wallet. Please drop your hate and open your mind. Forgive your enemies, let it go, for the sake of your family- PLEASE.

Your pal,
John Galt
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Re: Lover of wisdom..........Right!

Post by Doug »

John Galt wrote: Doug- you have truly lost it. You are the most close minded genius I have ever seen. I do not hate you, or women or brown/ black people or anything else.
DOUG
I was talking not about you specifically but about your party in general. Yes, the GOP hates blacks and Hispanics. This is evident from their actions regarding Katrina and the knee-jerk reaction about immigration. NO terrorists are known to have tried coming into the U.S. via our southern border. It IS known that one tried coming into the U.S. via the northern border with Canada. So where do you put the wall? In the south!

John Galt wrote: To oppose abortion is not to hate women.
DOUG
It is. Your party pretends to want less government in people's lives, yet you want control over reproductive rights. You pretend to be pro-life while endorsing the death penalty, torture, and unbridled war. It is pure hypocrisy, fear-mongering and hatred.
John Galt wrote: To be in favor of enforcing immigration laws is to be in favor of the rule of law- not hating brown people.
DOUG
Bullshit. Bush breaks the laws all the time and your party blocked investigations at every turn. And it continues to do so.

We have NEVER had closed and controlled borders in this country. NO terrorists have tried to come in through the southern border. So why ALL OF A SUDDEN is it imperative to build a wall at our southern border? The GOP has no rational answer.
John Galt wrote: Get a grip- the author of this article is a real academic that did real research. Liberals hate. You and Darrel are proof positive.
DOUG
Apparently you can't read. I said The left hates people for what they DO. I didn't deny that they hate. Such a short post I wrote yet you still have to distort it. I guess conservatives just can't help lying.
John Galt wrote: You are a small-minded loud mouth with a terrible attitude and an empty wallet. Please drop your hate and open your mind. Forgive your enemies, let it go, for the sake of your family- PLEASE.
DOUG
What crap. Now you are making things up just to say disparaging things. Well, please stop destroying our country--for the sake of all our families. Oh, I guess you just won't listen. Your hate trumps the bests interests of your country. You love your hate more than you love your country. This is not speculation, it is based on observation of the actions of the president you continue to support, a president who has weakened, embarassed, and shamed our country by his horrible actions.

Did you notice the story today about how the Canadians are advising their diplomats to be on the lookout for signs that the U.S. may violate the rights of their citizens. (We already have on at least two occasions.) Travel advisories about having to beware of the United States. For shame.
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Re: Liberal Hatemongers

Post by Savonarola »

John Galt wrote:Looking only at people who said they are "extremely conservative" or "extremely liberal," the right gave the left a score of 27; the left gives the right an icy 23. So much for the liberal tolerance edge.
Hey Galt, where's the normalization? Watch this hypothetical:
Notorious death row murderers were polled on their opinions toward average schmoes. Average schmoes were polled on their opinions toward notorious death row murderers. Because the schmoes rated the convicts lower than the convicts rated the schmoes, schmoes must be illogical, intolerant hatemongers.

Hell, Galtie boy, I could take your numbers and use them to "conclude" that it's not that liberals are icy, it's that neocons are simply more hate-able because they're terrible, awful people. You see, either the study wasn't performed in the way it should be, or your article left out some pertinent information.

But doing thorough analysis isn't really in the Republican playbook, is it?
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Re: Liberal Hatemongers

Post by Dardedar »

John Galt wrote:This just in- Liberals Hate more than Conservatives!
DAR
Notice Galt starts the dishonest spin in his very first sentence. How consistent of him.

Careful readers will note that the "poll" referred to in the article does not mention the subjective moniker "hate" at not. It's not there. "Hate" was not part of the question. So as any child can see, Galt's conclusion does not follow (non sequitur). It is humorous to observe that this is all an exercise in trying to make something of the well known fact that Bush and Cheney and the rest of right wing loons that have trashed this country have rock bottom approval ratings (call them "icy" ratings if you like). So they sit around and write stupid articles like this as some sort of defense. Is this the best they can do?

Yes, there are people here and around the world that have a lower opinion of Bush than of Saddam and even Osama bin Laden. This is because Bush has done a lot more damage. It's not even close.

Who's fault is it that people think the republicans have been a disaster? Perhaps this would be a good time for these wankers to try taking some "personal responsibility" they like to crow about. So along comes Galt along to sob.... waaaaaaaa, the liberals don't like us! They are liberals, they are supposed to be tolerant. That means should like us!

Sorry. History has shown us that everything GW Bush touches turns to shit. It's some kind of a rule. I didn't make the rule, I am just observing. This was his record before he stole the election and this has been his record as president. If Bush is involved, it turns to shit. No exceptions. A few examples, off the top of my head, just in case Rush forgot to mention them to you brain dead, ditto heads:

1) A completely incompetent anti-terrorist effort that allowed 9/11 to happen (Cheney's anti-terrorist task force didn't even bother to have a single meeting).

2) An unnecessary, two trillion dollar, illegal war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11

3) A war that has caused the death of more Americans than Bin Laden killed.

4) An idiotic war that has caused the death of 200 times more non-Americans than Bin Laden killed.

5) A supposed "strong dollar policy" that has allowed the dollar to almost be cut in half in value (i.e. against the euro).

6) A complete destruction of American standing and respect in the world. Bush is widely considered, even by our allies, as more of a threat to world peace and stability than Bin Laden. And American president has been reduced to this. This is pathetic.

7) Complete fiscal bankrupting of America. Bush has borrowed more money from other nations than all previous presidents combined.

8.) As is traditional with republicans, poverty goes up, education quality and results go down (especially science education because it represents the true enemy of faith). Ignorance skyrockets.

9) A destruction of FEMA resulting in a completely botched Katrina response. Americans being put to sleep in hospitals, in America, because no one came to rescue them.

There are a few. The list could be extended with a 100 examples. But this information is well known by anyone reasonably well informed. If you would like references specifically backing up the above claims, just ask. Backing up claims is my specialty and in fact, my favorite part.

So, yeah, there are a lot of people that loathe Bush & Co. Duh! I don't know and don't care if they are liberals or not. Anyone who hates, no loathes, the behavior and results these assholes have had, have very good reasons for holding such a belief.

D.
----------------------------
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
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Post by Dardedar »

John Galt wrote to Doug:
You are a blah blah... with a blah blah... and an empty wallet.
DAR
Often an attempted insult tells more about the person giving it than the person who is supposed to be insulted. Notice how when Galt isn't trying to insult people because they are teachers (there's a real winner), he is trying to insult them by assuming they have less money than him.

How Christ-like.

Oh by the way, Jesus called, he said he wants his religion back.

Image

D.
-----------------------
"I think it's very important for the American President to mean what he says. That's why I understand that the enemy could misread what I say. That's why I try to be as clearly I can." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004
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John Galt

It's not an assumption

Post by John Galt »

It's not an assumption.
LaWood

Post by LaWood »

"....Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone, "Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others." They also "believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference." Indeed, generations of academic scholars have assumed that the "natural personality" of political conservatives is characterized by hostile intolerance towards those with opposing viewpoints and lifestyles, while political liberals inherently embrace diversity. "
Well, isn't this special ! He finds a conservative professor at a very conservative university to define the liberal mindset. Hmmm. Did he ever think of asking People for the American Way or Noam Chomsky?
And the final icing on the rotten cake is found at the ending credit:
Mr. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Public Affairs and a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, is the author of the forthcoming book "Gross National Happiness."
So, we have two conservatives going about devising a methodology for "liberals" to appear more "icy" than wingnuts which our resident illiterate translates it to mean "hate."

Galt has it ever occurred to you that you are out of your league?
Copping the name of one of Ayn Rand's fictional heroes is one thing. Being able to reason with Rand's depth of understanding and grasp of core issues is quite another.
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Re: It's not an assumption

Post by Doug »

John Galt wrote:It's not an assumption.
DOUG
I don't make much money, Galt. It may be the case that you make far, far more money than I ever will. (I didn't go into philosophy for the money.)

But isn't it pathetic that you would use poverty (or at least lower earning power) as an insult? Jesus would disagree with you on this too.

Jesus said that in order to follow him one should sell all he has and give the money to the poor. Only then can he follow Jesus. And this, after obeying all the commandments.

Matthew 19 (NIV)
=================
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

18"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

[DOUG: Interesting. A rather abbreviated list. Apparently one can have other gods before YHWH, ignore the Sabbath, and still get into heaven!]

20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"

26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

=============
Mark 10
17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

[DOUG: Here Jesus explicitly denies being God. And good.]

19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"

[DOUG: Oops. Jesus gets one wrong. "Defraud not" is not one of the ten commandments.]

20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"

24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

28Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"

29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first."
==============
DOUG
The Republicans are the least Christlike of all the political parties. If the Satanists had a political party, their candidate would probably be more like Jesus than the anything the GOP could muster.
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Post by Dardedar »

LaWood wrote:
"
Copping the name of one of Ayn Rand's fictional heroes...
DAR
Ha, told ya Doug.

But Larry, didn't Ayn Rand's fictional character actually have some balls?

D.
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Re: It's not an assumption

Post by Dardedar »

DOUG
...isn't it pathetic that you would use poverty (or at least lower earning power) as an insult?
DAR
But Doug, if he is an Ayn Rand ass kissing cult member then that explains the money obession doesn't it? Money, self-interest, greed, and he can't think or read straight. All makes sense.

Kicking objectivist butt. Like taking candy from a baby.

D.
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Re: It's not an assumption

Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote:But Doug, if he is an Ayn Rand ass kissing cult member then that explains the money obession doesn't it? Money, self-interest, greed, and he can't think or read straight. All makes sense.D.
DOUG
Being a conservative would explain it too, though.
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Re: It's not an assumption

Post by Savonarola »

John Galt wrote:It's not an assumption.
At least we're not intellectually bankrupt...
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Post by Dardedar »

DAR
Actually I consider myself pretty well off. I own nine goats and am so wealthy I get to wear a fresh pair of socks and underwear every single day. That's doing pretty good.

D.
LaWood

Post by LaWood »

Dar-
But Larry, didn't Ayn Rand's fictional character actually have some balls?
Yes, Rand's Galt fit the ancient Germanic "Superman" as found in Friedrich Nietzsche's work, Thus Spake Zarathusta. It was long held aspiration of creating the ultimate redeemer which found it's culmination in Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich's common goal of a super race wherein "man" is transcended into what Nietzsche had termed "Übermensch" for which superman was the closest English translation.

All civilizations have their myths supported by mythical characters. Rand simply attempted to revive an old one and give it a modern face. It worked for awhile in the 60s and for a handful of 'come-lately' types who feel overwhelmed by their non-achievement in the present time.
They are often overwhelmed by the sheer size of the bureaucracies required to manage the huge numbers of people in our various societies.

It's no accident that the cigarette company revived the Marlboro Man for one it's brands. It's a myth that lurks deep in the psyche of American males.
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Post by Dardedar »

... the cigarette company revived the Marlboro Man for one it's brands.
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Post by Doug »

LaWood wrote:Yes, Rand's Galt fit the ancient Germanic "Superman" as found in Friedrich Nietzsche's work, Thus Spake Zarathusta. It was long held aspiration of creating the ultimate redeemer which found it's culmination in Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich's common goal of a super race wherein "man" is transcended into what Nietzsche had termed "Übermensch" for which superman was the closest English translation.
DOUG
However, even Nietzsche would have hated Hitler. Nietzsche disliked Germany and preferred to think of himself as a European. He also hated socialism. So Hitler's National Socialism party would not have appealed to him. Nietzsche also disliked anti-Semitism and Christianity, and Hitler made the promotion of each central to his political platform.
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