Why I won't be buying a Hybrid car

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Dardedar
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Why I won't be buying a Hybrid car

Post by Dardedar »

DAR
I drove a nice 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid yesterday while waiting for my truck to get serviced. Very nice. $22,000. I drive a lot so if I double my mileage I could save about $1,000 per year in fuel expense.

Image

Gas powered with a 15,000 watt electric assist motor. The car has a mileage meter on it and was showing 34 mpg. The EPA est. mileage sticker on the side of the car gives 49 hwy/51 city. When I asked why the difference I was told people test driving it were probably heavy footed. I was doubtful.

Seems like a lot of complicated extra machinery to get a couple more miles per gallon. My 1987 Honda Civic got about 40-42 mpg and my current all-wheel drive Honda CR-V gets about 26 mpg.

I just did a little checking and found out the truth. EPA estimates are ridiculously outdated and basically a fraud. They measure the exhaust and estimate the efficiency of the vehicle and therefore the mileage. So of course for todays more clean burning cars, like hybrids, this radically skews the estimate. That this level of dishonesty is allowed is astounding. Pathetic.

****
Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short

By John Gartner John Gartner |
02:00 AM May, 11, 2004 EDT

Hybrid cars are hot, but not as hot as their owners, who complain that their gas mileage hasn't come close to well-advertised estimates.

Don't knock the car companies for inflated claims: Experts say the blame lies with the 19-year-old EPA fuel-efficiency test that overstates hybrid performance.

Pete Blackshaw was so excited about getting a hybrid gasoline-electric car that he had his wife videotape the trip to the Honda dealership to pick up his Civic Hybrid. The enthusiastic owner ordered a customized license plate with "MO MILES" on it, and started a blog about his new hybrid lifestyle.

But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg.

"I feel like a complete fraud driving around Cincinnati with a license plate that says MO MILES," says Blackshaw, who claims that after 4,000 miles his car has never gotten more than 33 mpg on any trip. The tenor of Blackshaw's blog shifted from adulation to frustration after his Honda dealer confirmed that his car was functioning properly, and that there was nothing he could do.

Blackshaw, who is chief customer satisfaction officer at Intelliseek.com, spoke to a Honda regional manager about his concerns, and wrote a letter to a Honda vice president on April 15 that was not answered. His story has been echoed dozens of times online by owners of the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius.

Drivers rarely see the actual EPA-rated mileage in the real world, according to John DiPietro, road-test editor of automotive website Edmunds.com. DiPietro says most drivers will get between 75 to 87 percent of the rated mileage, with individual variations based on driving habits and traffic route. "If a new car gets less than 75 percent of its EPA rating, then it should be retested."

Data from independent product-testing organization Consumer Reports indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets. In Consumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg. Hybrid cars performed much closer to EPA estimates in Consumer Reports' highway tests.

Consumer Reports' senior auto test engineer Gabriel Shenhar says that while the EPA test is a lab simulation, Consumer Reports puts the cars on the streets and measures the fuel consumed to more accurately reflect gas mileage.

The 19-year-old EPA tests for city and highway mileage actually gauge vehicle emissions and use that data to derive an estimated fuel-efficiency rating. The EPA tests pre-production vehicles in a lab to simulate vehicle starts and stops on crowded city streets and open road conditions. According to the EPA website, "The tests measure the waste substances emitted from consuming the fuel, not the actual fuel consumed. From the measurement of emissions, EPA can estimate the miles per gallon achieved by the vehicle on average."

"The (EPA) test needs to include more fundamental engineering," says John H. Johnson, an automotive expert who co-authored a 2002 National Academy of Sciences report on fuel-efficiency standards. "They haven't been updated to encompass hybrids."

Johnson says the test was created so that it could be affordably reproduced, not to be as accurate as possible. "It's complicated to simulate all of the engineering factors in a moving vehicle," says Johnson, and hybrid cars, which use batteries to assist the gasoline engine, make the task all the more daunting.

The EPA did not respond to questions about its testing procedures in time to appear in this article.

Toyota environmental engineer Dave Hermance says the EPA city test includes 19 stops of at least a few seconds, which take up a "non-trivial" amount of the test and could cause hybrid cars to rate even higher than conventional cars because of their reliance on electric motors. "But I could also make arguments about aspects of the test going the other way, too." Hermance says that because the EPA uses historical data from 1972, it's virtually impossible to change the test.

Hermance says customers who drive less than seven miles per trip will get fewer miles per gallon, as will drivers who speed. "There's a huge range of customer behavior and limited resources to collect data, so there's no perfect test."

The EPA test "has inherent shortcomings, irrespective of what kind of car is being driven," says Philip Schmidt, professor of engineering at the University of Texas at Austin. Schmidt says hybrid cars use computers to more precisely control the flow of gasoline and have more efficient catalytic converters, which reduce the amount of emissions. Schmidt "wouldn't rule out" that hybrid cars' ability to limit emissions contributes to the disparity in EPA versus real-world numbers.

But the inflated EPA numbers have been a public relations conundrum for Honda and Toyota, which are caught between hyped expectations and detracting from one of the cars' main selling points -- better mileage.

Federal law requires that auto manufacturers use only EPA estimates when promoting their vehicles' fuel economy, according to Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell. While the company received some complaints about gas mileage, Hubbell says many Prius owners get close to their EPA-rated mileage. Toyota Prius sales increased 152 percent this April over last year, and many consumers are on a three- to six-month waiting list, Hubbell says.

Placing a gas mileage gauge on the dashboard has made more drivers aware of their fuel efficiency, says Honda spokesman Andy Boyd, which cuts both ways. "If every car were like that, more people would be complaining (about their conventional cars)," Boyd says. He says the company is dealing with dissatisfied users on an individual basis, and the company is reviewing how to respond to questions about mileage.

LINK to the last little bit
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Adam RE: Hybrids

Post by Dardedar »

My cousin Adam sent this response (hopefully he will come here and join in)

***
ADAM said:
When Hybrids came out in the area originally (the Honda Insight) I test drove one and got a bit better than 48 mpg over 100 or so miles of combined city and highway driving.

I also test drove a Toyota Prius first version and did the same thing with averages for both city and highway driving over about 140 miles of 41 mpg.

I personally will most definitely be buying a hybrid if I again buy another new car. I am interested particularly in the hybrid car ZAP will be importing called OBVIO. Using either Ethanol or gas plus a hybrid engine.

While there is truly not alot of savings in only getting 5 or so mpg better mileage, which may in fact not even pay for itself in added car costs (unless you factor in the fed's tax break), I personally believe that supporting the development of the technology is the primary benefit in buying any sort of alternative fuel technology or hybrid cars. Also, note that the performance is better with some hybrids compared to their all gas counterparts. This is because of marketing conceptualization planning on the part of the car companies who are trying very hard to overcome the idea that an alt fuel car is less functional than the old-school gas powered cars. So some relatively significant MPG savings are lost to the fact that the companies are designing cars that overcompensate for better performance to diminish perception that a hybrid is a weak car.
***
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Post by Dardedar »

DAR
I am really hoping my next vehicle can be all
electric. A lithium battery electric smart car
would be ideal. The company that is supposedly
working on this right now is Hybrid Technologies:

http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/

HYBT.OB

I bought some of their stock a couple of months
ago at about $6 and it's almost $12 right now. I
sold most of it when it slipped back to $8 a
couple of weeks ago, then it bounced back up.
Pretty small company and pretty volatile and
risky. But if they put out an electric smart car
that works well, they won't be able to make them
fast enough.

I gave a presentation on alternative vehicles at
a Freethinker Meeting a couple of months ago with
some good examples of electrics on the way. You
can download my power point presentation here:

http://fayfreethinkers.com/powerpoints/

Lots of neat stuff but you won't get to hear my
blather (it wasn't really intended as a stand
alone PP without commentary, but perhaps still of
interest, lost of pics).

--- AdamBlack wrote:
> When Hybrids came out in the area originally
> (the Honda Insight) I test
> drove one and got a bit better than 48 mpg over
> 100 or so miles of combined city
> and highway driving.

DAR
I considered the Honda Insight but being a two
seater with batteries it didn't have much room in
the back for my tools.

Image


Plus gas was about $1.20
back then. And the darn thing only gets a few
miles more per gallon than my old Civic's did.
Replacement on the batteries (which will fail) is
about $4,000.

My main thing with this email I sent around was
the absurdity of the government using (and
requiring) that inaccurate (bogus) mpg estimates
be used.

D.
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Post by Dardedar »

Adam responds with problems of all electrics:

***
I like the all electric concept, but I have four main problems with them, all of which have been steadily getting less offensive, but all are still unsatisfactory to my happiness with them.

First is that their design does not suit the desires I have for my family in two ways. First is safety needs in crash circumstances. The all electric cars I am familiar with (built electrics not conversions) vastly sacrifice real crash safety for efficiency of basic function. Second, we are a family of 4 and we need to be able to accommodate 4 people and a load of groceries, another feature sorely lacking in built as electric cars is size. Again, necessarily so for efficiency reasons.

Second, lack of acceleration which limits one's ability to safely enter a fast flow of traffic, or to cross in a left hand turn from a center lane in a very busy 5 lane street, thereby increasing the risk of accidents. I a not naive, nor a bad driver, but I share the road with a great number of people who are both and if I need to accelerate to avoid an accident I absolutely want the pedal to make it happen.

Third lack of availability of long range driving recharge options. This issue could easily be overlooked if the car were just an around town car instead of a car we would use for long trips.

Four, and this is a problem with many hybrids as well. Inability to support non-stock sound systems. As they again have to pinch areas which draw down electricity, after market sound systems which can be placed in many alt fuel vehicles are difficult to come by. I personally have interest in this area, as very little increases the pleasure of driving than satisfying sound system.

I recognize that bold consumerism is the root of some of my interests, but overall I find myself to voice my interests in what I believe needs to come to market for me to not just think the cars are good ideas, but to actually go buy one.

Hybrids are FAR closer than electrics in meeting all of the above needs. The one they do not meet is the need to no longer use any form of liquid combustion energy like gasoline. Unless I am only charging my car from solar panels though, the electricity one charges a car with is no cleaner than ethanol. Electricity comes from somewhere burning coal, nuclear fission, hydro, etc.... all have impacts some equally negative to burning gasoline in my view.

Adam
***
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Post by Dardedar »

> I like the all electric concept, but I have
> four main problems with them,
> all of which have been steadily getting less
> offensive, but all are still
> unsatisfactory to my happiness with them.

DAR
All of these, except for long range problems,
have been dealt with. See my powerpoint
presentation for examples.

http://fayfreethinkers.com/powerpoints/smartcar.ppt

> First is that their design does not suit the
> desires I have for my family in
> two ways. First is safety needs in crash
> circumstances. The all electric
> cars I am familiar with (built electrics not
> conversions) vastly sacrifice
> real crash safety for efficiency of basic
> function. Second, we are a family of
> 4 and we need to be able to accommodate 4
> people and a load of groceries,
> another feature sorely lacking in built as
> electric cars is size. Again,
> necessarily so for efficiency reasons.

DAR
It's been a while since you looked! Check out
the 1998 Toyota RAV-EV here. Regular size, I am
sure has all the airbags, full power etc:

http://www.evworld.com/archives/testdrives/rav4ev.html

As to why you can't get one, see my PP
presentation. See also:

http://www.dontcrush.com/


ADAM
> Second, lack of acceleration which limits one's
> ability to safely enter a
> fast flow of traffic,...

DAR
Not an issue at all. The 90's GM EV-1 was
specifically tuned DOWN to have less power than
the motor was capable of (probably for battery
considerations). Check out my presentation and
George Clooney's new Tango (0-60 in four
seconds).

Image


When we get electric cars again, (we
had tens of thousands of them on the roads 85
years ago), they will BLOW THE DOORS off of the
gas ones (as they did back then incidentally).
Power, acceleration, is a not a problem in the
least.

Image

**Here are some basic specs on the Tango:

Top speed, 130 miles per hour. About 80 miles per charge. Three hours to completely recharge in a dryer socket, 10 minutes to recharge 80 percent in a high-current, 200-amp socket.

Safety? It has jet-pilot seat belts and a racing-regulation roll cage; it weighs more than 3,000 pounds, about the same as a Toyota Camry, including 1,100 pounds of Yellow Top batteries under the floorboards as ballast, so it's not tippy on turns.

Storage? Enough room for a back-seat passenger, a couple briefcases and workout gear or a baby seat, umbrella stroller and diaper bag or 12 sacks of groceries.

How much? Eighty grand for the first, hand-assembled, leather-lined luxury models with 400-watt Nakamichi sound systems; later on, it's hoped, $20,000 or less for a mass-produced people's version."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacifi ... cover.html



> Third lack of availability of long range
> driving recharge options. This
> issue could easily be overlooked if the car
> were just an around town car instead
> of a car we would use for long trips.

DAR
This is the biggest problem but I really think
we are on cusp of solving it. I could get by, and
would, with 60-80 miles range (which we have
already) because I could give a little charge-up
at a customers home. I just read about a company
that is shooting for 1,000 mile range. See my
presentation for more recent promising examples.
See the new Subara which charges in ten minutes
or so.
This isn't the site I was looking for but see
this:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/lis3.htm

Check out the Zebra battery technology which is
already being used in Buses:

http://www.betard.co.uk/

Excellent recharge and power capabilities. Has
been used in submarines for years.


> Four, and this is a problem with many hybrids
> as well. Inability to support
> non-stock sound systems. As they again have to
> pinch areas which draw down
> electricity,

DAR
What vehicle are you talking about? It
shouldn't be any problem to convert whatever
juice the vehicle is using to 12 volt if it isn't
that already. The amount of power used, compared
with what the vehicle is pulling, is negligible.
Electric motors are already much smaller and
lighter than a gas equivilent and we can shrink
their size by one quarter again by using
something more along the lines of 400hz instead
of the ridiculous and unsafe 60hz which we are
locked into because it was invented in the 1850's
(or so). I understand military jets already use
the 400hz which is much more efficient.


> Hybrids are FAR closer than electrics in
> meeting all of the above needs.

DAR
Except I am not at all impressed with all of
the effort and extra machinery used to get a very
marginal mileage improvement. And all electrics
have a fraction of parts compared to regular gas
never mind the *extra* complexity of these hybrids.
Electrics have almost 1/10 of the parts. Auto
companies make a lot, if not most of their money
from selling parts later on. It's a scam-a-lama.


> Electricity comes from somewhere burning coal,
> nuclear fission, hydro,
> etc.... all have impacts some equally negative
> to burning gasoline in my view.

DAR
For some reason, and I haven't figured this
out yet, either electricity is massively
subsidized or our electric plants are much more
efficient at converting their energy because of
their size than our vehicles (probably all the
waste heat going out the exhaust pipe). The cost
of charging batteries to move you around in a car
is pennies on the dollar compared with gas.
The ideal would be having your solar panels
(or wind) feeding the grid during the day and
then charging your car off the grid during the
night when consumption is low anyway.

Let's take this discussion to our Freethinker
Forum here Adam. I am not sure the people I sent
this to want to get all of these emails and there
are about a dozen people on the forum who would
probably like to join in on this discussion.

The link is here:

fayfreethinkers/forums/.com

-snip-

D.
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Post by Dardedar »

DAR
For a somewhat conspiratorial, yet quite believable article on why battery techology is languishing, see:

http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/hurryupandwait.html

This is an excellent site for the latest news on these things. I am finally going to get around to subscribing today:

http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/

Look who has their hands in trying to squelch new battery technology. I am not a conspiracy guy, but this reeks:

***
COBASYS and Panasonic EV Energy to cooperate in the development of next-generation state-of-the-art nickel metal hydride batteries

Rochester Hills, Mich., July 7, 2004 — Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (ECD Ovonics) (NASDAQ:ENER) today announced that it and COBASYS LLC, its 50-50 manufacturing joint venture with ChevronTexaco Technology Ventures LLC, have entered into a settlement agreement with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (MEI), Panasonic EV Energy Co., Ltd. (PEVE), and Toyota Motor Corporation with respect to patent infringement disputes and counterclaims involving nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries before the International Chamber of Commerce, International Court of Arbitration. Under the terms of the settlement, no party admitted any liability.

Under the terms of the settlement, COBASYS and PEVE will cross license each other for current and future patents to avoid possible future litigation. COBASYS and PEVE have agreed to a technical cooperation agreement to advance the state-of-the-art of NiMH batteries which are widely used in hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs). COBASYS and PEVE have also established a joint development program to collaborate on the development of next-generation high performance NiMH batteries for HEVs.

The parties reached an amicable settlement on mutually satisfactory terms that will help them to meet the requirements of expanding the HEV market. Details of the settlement are confidential.

For more information about ECD Ovonics, please visit www.ovonic.com.

For more information about COBASYS, please visit www.cobasys.com.
***

More on how we are being shagged by these lawsuits here:

http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm? ... blogid=104

Note:
"Cobasys, a leader in advanced NiMH battery system solutions is a joint venture between Chevron Technology Ventures LLC, a subsidiary of Chevron Corporation (NYSE: CVX) and Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (NASDAQ: ENER)."

Chevron has us by the batteries.

D.
-------------------------
Our fearless leader clowing with the GEM EV:

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Velomobile

Post by Doug »

Those of you who recall our Fayetteville Freethinker meeting about hybrid and electric cars may recall that I am an advocate of velomobiling.

Velomobiles are fully faired (enclosed) bicycles that reduce wind resistance and increase efficiency. They are expensive, so I don't have one yet, but there is a velomobile conference I'd like to attend this June in Cedar Rapids, IA.

Image
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Electric power too

Post by Doug »

Some velomobiles have electric power assist, which is invaluable around here with all the hills.

From $5,000 - $12,000 or more, they are not inexpensive.

Image

Some velomobile links:
http://www.velomobiling.net
http://www.velomobiles.net
http://www.velomobileusa.com/
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Aerorider

Post by Doug »

Image

The Aerorider is sold in the US by Zapworld under the name of "ePod." It has major electric assist.

Price: $9,500
Speed: Up to 20 MPH
Range: 20 miles on a charge, 45 with pedaling.
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Post by Betsy »

I already found my answer to the problem - a scooter! I know, it sucks when it's cold and rainy (like today) but when the weather is good, I can go all over town up to 40 mph, I get 90 miles to the gallon (really. No, really) and I don't have to buy insurance or even tag the thing.

As an added bonus, it makes me feel really happy to ride it, which is like taking Prozac without the sexual side effects.

It only cost about $2500. I highly recommend it.
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Post by Barbara Fitzpatrick »

1) the standard gasoline engine is about 20% efficient at turning fuel into work - the rest is waste heat - while the standard electrical plant (coal, oil, gas) is closer to 80% efficient with 20% waste heat. That's why the enviros push electrics, even if you have to use dirty electricity to power them. Also the equivalent power coming from 1 power plant (which scrubbers or other emission controls) is thousands of individual tailpipe with little to no emission controls.

2) Anybody know anything about EV conversions (like how much it costs these days and where one can get it done)? I'd love to convert my '83 Datsun Sentra to an EV, if possible/affordable.
Barbara Fitzpatrick
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Post by Dardedar »

Barbara Fitzpatrick wrote:
1) the standard gasoline engine is about 20% efficient at turning fuel into work - the rest is waste heat - while the standard electrical plant (coal, oil, gas) is closer to 80% efficient with 20% waste heat.
DAR
Well that explains it then. Thanks for the info.

I check and found this:

"The most efficient gasoline engines available in today’s market have a peak efficiency of about 30 – 35 percent (on a good day)."

And this:

"Unlike gasoline engines, electric motors can be greater than 90 percent efficient at using electrical energy. So, if an electric motor uses 100 kW-hrs of energy from the battery, 90 kW-hrs worth of energy will be converted into useful work.

Thus the advantage of electric. This is a pretty good article:

http://www.hybridcars.com/efficiency.html
2) Anybody know anything about EV conversions (like how much it costs these days and where one can get it done)?
DAR
SAV converted a pickup to electric once.

D.
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Post by Savonarola »

Barbara Fitzpatrick wrote:1) the standard gasoline engine is about 20% efficient at turning fuel into work - the rest is waste heat ....

2) Anybody know anything about EV conversions (like how much it costs these days and where one can get it done)? I'd love to convert my '83 Datsun Sentra to an EV, if possible/affordable.
The book I remember reading before doing our conversion said that internal combustion engines ("ICEs") were only about 10% efficient. However, I noticed that they counted brake-generated heat as loss, which is essentially unavoidable without an experienced driver taking advantage of regenerative braking and thus a bit misleading.

We used a company called KTA Services. The main guy, Ken Koch, was really helpful and seems to know his stuff. However, we bought the parts and did the conversion ourselves. As expensive as things like the motor and the controller can be, the price of paying someone to do the labor would likely break the bank. I spent months -- including most of my free time during one summer -- installing gauges, running wires, attaching components, etc.


Do you have any specific questions I might be able to answer?
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Post by Barbara Fitzpatrick »

No, I was just hoping to get around waiting until my house is paid for (about 11 years) before I could afford to get off the petrol bit. It doesn't sound like it. I haven't changed a sparkplug wire since I traded in my '65 Falcon - if you open the hood and can't see the ground, it's too complicated for me - and I can't lift over 25 pounds (& that not for long or many reps), so I doubt I'm going to be able to do it myself. Sigh.
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How About an Electric One?

Post by Doug »

Betsy wrote:I already found my answer to the problem - a scooter! I know, it sucks when it's cold and rainy (like today) but when the weather is good, I can go all over town up to 40 mph, I get 90 miles to the gallon (really. No, really) and I don't have to buy insurance or even tag the thing.
DOUG
Good for you, Betsy. But how about an electric scooter? It is economical and has zero emissions? They are not as available as gas scooters, but I hope to see them become more available as word gets out.



Standard Model - MOTOR: 1500 Watt brushless / TOP SPEED: 29 mph / PRICE: $2050

Image

For a bit more power, the Sport edition has a 2000 watt brushless motor that propels you to 35 MPH. It helps you to keep up with traffic and gives you an edge on hill climbing. TOP SPEED: 37 mph RANGE: 35-40 miles BATTERIES: 8 x 12V/20A Silicone - 80% recharge in approximately 1.5 hours, full charge in 3 to 3.5 hours. HIGHLIGHTS: Maximum payload 150kg/2 persons (330 lbs). Fast and economy speeds. No gear shift required. Storage space in front and under seat. WARRANTY: 2 years on all parts and batteries. The battery warranty is limited to 10,000 km (6,213.71 miles) or 1 year, whichever occurs first. WHEEL SIZE: 13 in. SEAT HEIGHT: 32.3 in. PRICE: $2850

http://www.pleiades-enterprises.bigstep ... ic119.html
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Post by Dardedar »

Betsy wrote:I already found my answer to the problem - a scooter!
DAR
Check out my scooter Betsy:

Image
I know, it sucks when it's cold and rainy (like today) but when the weather is good, I can go all over town up to 40 mph, I get 90 miles to the gallon (really. No, really)
DAR
I go about 20 miles on five cents worth of electricity. That works out to about 1,000 miles per gallon.
It only cost about $2500. I highly recommend it.
DAR
You can get a Pukka for about $325, but admittedly they are a little on the smallish side...

D.
-----------------------------
pukka adj

1. Genuine; authentic.
2. Superior; first class.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Image

Specs:

Speed: up to 19 mph

Acceleration: 0-19mph in 3-5 seconds

Range: up to 24 miles on a single charge (based on rider weight)

Frame: Oversized tube, mono shock suspension

Size: Wheel base 26", height to top of handlebars 34", height to seat (lowest position) 26"

Weight limit: Up to 220 lbs

Motor: 400 Watt, high-efficiency. 4-brush.
Battery: 18Ah (2hr), deep-cycle, rapid-discharge, SLA

System control: Pulse Width Modulator (PWM), provides accurate acceleration sensitivity, redundant shutdown protection against overloads

Battery charger: 2 Amp (included)
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Doug
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The Top of the Line Electric Scooter

Post by Doug »

Image

The Cadillac of electric scooters. The Vectrix.

Max Speed 62 mph / 100 km/h
Acceleration 0-50 mph (80 km/h) - 6.8 seconds
Range 68 miles (110 km) @ 25 mph (40 km/h)
Simulated urban driving - 5 hours

The website says it will be available in the USA in 2006.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Doug
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Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote:You can get a Pukka for about $325, but admittedly they are a little on the smallish side...
DOUG
Hence no pictures of a person with the Pukka..?
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Doug
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The Cree

Post by Doug »

Image

Current consumption from batteries Approx. 5 kWh / 100 km city
Range 50 to 70 km (31-43 miles)
Top speed 85 km/h (about 53 mph)
Acceleration from 0 to 50 km/h 7 seconds with 2 passengers

The Cree. OK, it looks like something the Borg would drive...
Image
(Here's one.)
Last edited by Doug on Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Post by Dardedar »

DOUG
The website says it will be available in the USA in 2006.
DAR
They're lying. Bigtime.

D.
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