Page 1 of 1

Darwin's God

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:19 pm
by Dardedar
Interesting article in the New York Times:

Darwin’s God

Excerpt:

The magic-box demonstration helped set Atran on a career studying why humans might have evolved to be religious, something few people were doing back in the ’80s. Today, the effort has gained momentum, as scientists search for an evolutionary explanation for why belief in God exists — not whether God exists, which is a matter for philosophers and theologians, but why the belief does.

This is different from the scientific assault on religion that has been garnering attention recently, in the form of best-selling books from scientific atheists who see religion as a scourge. In “The God Delusion,” published last year and still on best-seller lists, the Oxford evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins concludes that religion is nothing more than a useless, and sometimes dangerous, evolutionary accident. “Religious behavior may be a misfiring, an unfortunate byproduct of an underlying psychological propensity which in other circumstances is, or once was, useful,” Dawkins wrote. He is joined by two other best-selling authors — Sam Harris, who wrote “The End of Faith,” and Daniel Dennett, a philosopher at Tufts University who wrote “Breaking the Spell.” The three men differ in their personal styles and whether they are engaged in a battle against religiosity, but their names are often mentioned together. They have been portrayed as an unholy trinity of neo-atheists, promoting their secular world view with a fervor that seems almost evangelical.

Lost in the hullabaloo over the neo-atheists is a quieter and potentially more illuminating debate. It is taking place not between science and religion but within science itself, specifically among the scientists studying the evolution of religion. These scholars tend to agree on one point: that religious belief is an outgrowth of brain architecture that evolved during early human history. What they disagree about is why a tendency to believe evolved, whether it was because belief itself was adaptive or because it was just an evolutionary byproduct, a mere consequence of some other adaptation in the evolution of the human brain.

Which is the better biological explanation for a belief in God — evolutionary adaptation or neurological accident? Is there something about the cognitive functioning of humans that makes us receptive to belief in a supernatural deity? And if scientists are able to explain God, what then? Is explaining religion the same thing as explaining it away? Are the nonbelievers right, and is religion at its core an empty undertaking, a misdirection, a vestigial artifact of a primitive mind? Or are the believers right, and does the fact that we have the mental capacities for discerning God suggest that it was God who put them there?

In short, are we hard-wired to believe in God? And if we are, how and why did that happen?

Image

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:32 pm
by Barbara Fitzpatrick
Here's that word again (believe). I believe there is no such thing as an evolutionary "accident" or "byproduct" - just traits we haven't figured out the purpose of yet.

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:40 pm
by Savonarola
Barbara Fitzpatrick wrote:Here's that word again (believe). I believe there is no such thing as an evolutionary "accident" or "byproduct" - just traits we haven't figured out the purpose of yet.
The word "accident" to me implies some negative deviation from a purposeful process. As evolution has no goal or purpose of any sort, the phrase "evolutionary accident" seems to me to be an oxymoron. It grinds at my nerves partly because it's the type of characterization that uneducated creationists throw around indiscriminantly.
There may be, on the other hand, (depending on one's definition) evolutionary byproducts: broken genes, genes selected upon but not selected for (e.g by virtue of physical proximity to a gene selected for), and vestigial structures.

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:23 am
by Barbara Fitzpatrick
Aside from "broken" genes, I don't believe in evolutionary byproducts - just structure, vestigial or otherwise, that we don't understand (yet). An example would be the gene for sickle cell anemia. For centuries we knew sickle cell anemia was deadly. We found out it was genetic. Since it was "bad", it had to be a "byproduct". Well, no, a single gene for sickle cell anemia imparts resistence to malaria. We just didn't have that knowledge. I'm saying that stuff we currently relegate to "evolutionary byproducts" either have (or had) a use we don't understand yet.

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:44 pm
by clem9796
Barbara Fitzpatrick wrote:Here's that word again (believe). I believe there is no such thing as an evolutionary "accident" or "byproduct" - just traits we haven't figured out the purpose of yet.
Barbara, I'm new here so pardon me if I haven't read a particular post. I'd like to ask if you've read a theory by Julian Jaynes titled "The Origin of Conciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"?

I have read it, and I'm still not sure wether he's completely nuts or right on the money. The idea of god, or a higher power, stemmed from the theory that the hemispheres weren't as good at communicating as we have inferred. The same holds true today in tests related to hearing and speech from left to right. "Thought" wasn't understood by the speech center of the brain and was interpreted as god's voice. On the extreme side of this, schizophrenia in people today seems to go hand in hand with the theory.

He does state many probable examples in historical works, also provides historical data where kings and rulers were the only ones capable of talking with god and therefore holding the power. The book, while dry, does seem at least worth entertaining the notion. Religion as a byproduct of evolution.. interesting theory.

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:34 am
by ChristianLoeschel
Barbara, the notion that there are no byproducts to evolution lacks some understanding. It implies that every behavior, every action, every genetic expression is there for one purpose - the reason it got incorporated into the general genepool in a species - and has absolutely no other effect than that purpose.

An evolutionary by-product is some action or function that occurs "out of context", many times completely differing from its original purpose.

Let me give you an example straight from Dawkins explanation of his views on origins of religion (By the way, oh look, on topic!)

According to Dawkins, it is definitely desireable for a child to be susceptible to information from authority figures. The way he puts it is that a child doesn't have the luxury to learn for itself that swimming in a crocodile infested lake may not be a good idea. So when a child hears this information from an authority figure, it is beneficial to survival of the species to believe this information.
Now the byproduct is that this child may also hear information from that authority figure (delivered in the same, somber "dont do this or youll die" tone) that has nothing to do with the survival of the species. Such as "Oh hey, theres this God that created us all". And because of the beneficial hardwiring of believing information from their elders, the child buys it unquestioned.

That is the evolutionary by-product explanation of religion.

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:18 am
by Barbara Fitzpatrick
A knife has one purpose - to cut things. Whether it's used as a tool or weapon depends on circumstances. Something that has a single purpose may have many uses, but if you don't know those uses, until you discover them you probably will consider that item/trait/whatever to be of little value.

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:35 am
by ChristianLoeschel
Did you ever use a knife to spread butter?