Obama Flips for FISA

[Doug]

(As opposed to the silly offshore drilling band-aid that you support--

DAR
Again you completely mis-characterize it. I don't support offshore drilling and neither does Obama as has been shown many many many times in this thread. He has taken the position of being open to compromise on this for the purpose of passing a broad based green energy policy. My position is that his position is a good idea and a reasonable approach. I think Nancy Pelosi's (quoted below) is too. Neither of our positions can be fairly characterized as being in support of offshore drilling. Only unfairly. Usually by bone headed knee-jerk republicans and the odd stray Hillary sycophant who thinks the primaries were some kind of a ball game and they can't stop supporting the team that lost. Unfortunately, they are doing this by hurling rotten veggies at the one that won.

DOUG
If Obama says "OK, you can drill offshore" when he had previously said that he would oppose it, then:
a. That is a flip. No question about that.
b. It is not a "compromise" unless the other side gives up something too.

So what are the conservatives/oil companies giving up to "compromise"? I haven't heard of anything they're giving up. If they don't give up something, it is NOT a compromise, it is called giving in.

And if Obama knows that this "band-aid" is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors, that it really won't make any difference in price, then he ought to be against it even if the ignorant, unwashed masses are in favor of it.

...and which you admit is a band-aid, and which you think Obama should support because it is OK, according to you, to lie when running for president.)

No, I have never said that of course, or anything resembling it. Being open to compromise means you have the option of accepting or declining any future deal. Being open to compromise does not in any way mean you are lying now or that you cannot change you opinion in the future. But why am I even bothering? If you haven't gotten this with as many times as I have carefully explained this to you above, then you aren't going to get it.

DOUG
I am not asserting that you said it was OK to lie on the grounds that Obama is open to compromise. I am asserting you said it was OK to lie because you have said, more than once, that Obama (and other politicians) can say anything they want during the "silly season" and they are not expected to make good on what they say at this time. So they can lie and lie and it makes no difference to you.

“Not that it matters very much what the politicians say during the silly season. Especially the details.”—Darrel, 8/3/08
"What is said now during the silly season will have precisely nothing to do with what happens next year on the issue of offshore drilling. However, Obama losing the election will have a great deal to do with what happens next year on the issue of offshore drilling."—Darrel, 8/04/08

[Dardedar]

If Obama says "OK, you can drill offshore" when he had previously said that he would oppose it, then:
a. That is a flip. No question about that.

DAR
Recommendation: try making your case against him when he says that rather than scripting a fictional story now based upon "if." Or did you think I wouldn't notice your "if?" He hasn't said "OK, you can drill offshore" so no, there there is some question about your flip claim. You have to remember to word it just right, in the worst possible light, in order make it work. You forgot to stack it just right because the above doesn't get the job done for you. And then at best you can only get a flip on the issue of "considering a potential compromise" versus not. As most people can see, including many republicans, that's a yawner because it commits to nothing substantive.

So what are the conservatives/oil companies giving up to "compromise"? I haven't heard of anything they're giving up.

DAR
Then you haven't been paying attention. That you would say this shows you don't know your elbow from a hole in the ground on this issue. Recommendation: Try reading the Pelosi quote I just gave you which speaks of the compromises the oil companies would have to make. Many if not all of the Obama quotes I have provided have said this as well.

DOUG
I am asserting you said it was OK to lie because you have said, more than once, that Obama (and other politicians) can say anything they want during the "silly season"and they are not expected to make good on what they say at this time.

DAR
Rubbish. I have not asserted Obama or any other politicians "can say anything they want." And the last time you distorted my comments to make this bogus charge I denied it too. A third time is unlikely to work any better. Obama can change from no compromise on this issue, to considering compromise on this issue, with out lying or committing to anything other than that he will consider a compromise on this issue in the future. All your attempts at painting him a liar or panderer, or me as a person in favor of him or anyone being a liar/panderer are futile and beyond ridiculous. You are drunk on Hillary kool-aid and not thinking clearly. Sometimes it is just best to admit when you are wrong rather than drag it out like this.

DOUG
So they can lie and lie and it makes no difference to you.

DAR
Right, if anything is clear from the way I conduct my life it is that people "can lie and lie and it makes no difference to" me. [/disgusted, head shaking sarcasm off]

Eat a well balanced diet. Get some rest.

Two quotes:

“Not that it matters very much what the politicians say during the silly season. Especially the details.”—Darrel, 8/3/08

DAR
Explanation: A statement of fact based upon past observation. Examples provided if requester is new to the country and too clueless to know of several on their own.

"What is said now during the silly season will have precisely nothing to do with what happens next year on the issue of offshore drilling.

DAR
Explanation: This is true because a deal is not being struck now, but rather later, probably next year. Watch what the politicians say then. Watch especially closely what the presidential winner says then, not what the presidential hopefuls, who have very little power, say now (especially when they only commit to being open to compromise and/or considering the different options). This is important because what they say then will actually matter in the real world and have an effect because they will actually be president.

D.
-----------------------------
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?" --Monty Python

[Doug]

If Obama says "OK, you can drill offshore" when he had previously said that he would oppose it, then:
a. That is a flip. No question about that.

DAR
Recommendation: try making your case against him when he says that rather than scripting a fictional story now based upon "if." Or did you think I wouldn't notice your "if?" He hasn't said "OK, you can drill offshore" so no, there there is some question about your flip claim. You have to remember to word it just right, in the worst possible light, in order make it work. You forgot to stack it just right because the above doesn't get the job done for you. And then at best you can only get a flip on the issue of "considering a potential compromise" versus not. As most people can see, including many republicans, that's a yawner because it commits to nothing substantive.

DOUG
It is giving up the prohibition on offshore drilling in restricted areas. Haven't the Republicans killed off enough endangered animals and ruined public lands that we don't have to help them do it some more?

So what are the conservatives/oil companies giving up to "compromise"? I haven't heard of anything they're giving up.

DAR
Then you haven't been paying attention. That you would say this shows you don't know your elbow from a hole in the ground on this issue. Recommendation: Try reading the Pelosi quote I just gave you which speaks of the compromises the oil companies would have to make. Many if not all of the Obama quotes I have provided have said this as well.

DOUG
Paying royalties to the taxpayers? That is something they would have to do ANYWAY since it is public land. I still don't see any compromise.

[Dardedar]

I still don't see any compromise.

DAR
You probably won't be included in those negotiations.

I have already stated what I think the compromise should be. Exxon should have to buy me a Prius.

D.

[Doug]

I still don't see any compromise.

DAR
You probably won't be included in those negotiations.

I have already stated what I think the compromise should be. Exxon should have to buy me a Prius.

D.

DOUG
OK. You get a Prius. I want a wheelbarrow and Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity take turns hauling me around wherever I want to go.