When war started in Iraq, a generation of U.S. women became involved as never before - in a wider-than-ever array of jobs, for long deployments, in a conflict with daily bloodshed. More than 155,000 women have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Among their ranks are more than 16,000 single mothers, according to the Pentagon, a number that military experts say is unprecedented.
How these women have coped and how their children are managing have gone little-noticed as the war stretches across a fourth year.
"It has to be one of the hardest things that a mom and her children have to go through," said Steven Mintz, a University of Houston professor with an expertise in family life. "You can't cuddle a young child over the phone, and you can't cuddle a child through e-mail."
Here.
16,000 Single U.S. Mothers Serving in Iraq
-
Doug
- Posts: 3388
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
- Location: Fayetteville, AR
- Contact:
16,000 Single U.S. Mothers Serving in Iraq
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
-
Barbara Fitzpatrick
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:55 am
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
During WWII they didn't take only parents, nor only children. They also fed, clothed, and housed all the military and had allowances for dependents. Also had the best GI-bill, vet programs in the world. The current situation, while continually trying to make Iraq into a mini-WWII, only has the dead - and PTSD - in common.
Barbara Fitzpatrick
-
Hogeye
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:33 pm
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
- Contact:
You've come a long way, baby. Now, women can be every bit as stupid and immoral as men who indenture themselves to the State to murder for political rulers.
Such stupid and immoral people should not be rewarded with education subsidies, medical goodies, and such. They should be ridiculed and disdained, at least until they show some remorse for their conduct.
Such stupid and immoral people should not be rewarded with education subsidies, medical goodies, and such. They should be ridiculed and disdained, at least until they show some remorse for their conduct.
"May the the last king be strangled in the guts of the last priest." - Diderot
With every drop of my blood I hate and execrate every form of tyranny, every form of slavery. I hate dictation. I love liberty. - Ingersoll
With every drop of my blood I hate and execrate every form of tyranny, every form of slavery. I hate dictation. I love liberty. - Ingersoll
-
Doug
- Posts: 3388
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
- Location: Fayetteville, AR
- Contact:
And the incentive for being a member of the Ozarkia Militia would be..?Hogeye wrote:You've come a long way, baby. Now, women can be every bit as stupid and immoral as men who indenture themselves to the State to murder for political rulers.
Such stupid and immoral people should not be rewarded with education subsidies, medical goodies, and such. They should be ridiculed and disdained, at least until they show some remorse for their conduct.
(Hint: Money is not enough...)
Plato talked about how the ideal state would feed its soldiers a bunch of talk about how they'll be remembered, how they will be considered heroes, etc. etc. because otherwise no one would sign up. The propaganda serves a purpose. That's why politicians have been reluctant to say that Iraq was a mistake. We thought they had WMD's. They did not. But WE DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE!
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
All right, Hogeye - I will hold you to your word. Henceforth, when you see me at meetings or whatever, I expect you to demonstrate to my face the "ridicule and disdain" of which you speak. I feel no remorse for having spent six years in the U.S. Marine Corps - the last 2 1/2 of those as a single mother. But thanks so much for pointing out how "stupid and immoral" I am.Hogeye wrote:You've come a long way, baby. Now, women can be every bit as stupid and immoral as men who indenture themselves to the State to murder for political rulers.
Such stupid and immoral people should not be rewarded with education subsidies, medical goodies, and such. They should be ridiculed and disdained, at least until they show some remorse for their conduct.
I'm Sherry, the one who travels down to meetings with my husband James from Springfield. There: now you can't say you don't know who I am.
We will be at the winter celebration party, can I expect to see you there - or must I wait until the next meeting we attend? I so look forward to seeing you again!
"An independent mind, a strong heart, and a free soul."
Sherry, just consider the source. It's not worth getting mad over. My son is currently enlisted in the U.S. Coast Guard and I'm very proud of him. He's neither stupid nor immoral. When I read Hogeye's post, I just thought "what a jackass" and didn't respond.
After dealing with the jackasses on NWAP, I've learned to just roll my eyes when people get completely outside the realm of being reasonable.
After dealing with the jackasses on NWAP, I've learned to just roll my eyes when people get completely outside the realm of being reasonable.
-
Barbara Fitzpatrick
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:55 am
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Sherry - definitely ignore Hogeye on anything to do with the military - and most other government agencies. He's lives in never-neverland where no government means everybody plays nice and we're all better for it. I was a 4th generation single parent (1 by widowhood and the rest divorce - yes, you could get divorced in 1902), and I don't remember how I got through that. Doing single mother AND the Marines is a job I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Congratulations for surviving it.
Barbara Fitzpatrick
-
Doug
- Posts: 3388
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
- Location: Fayetteville, AR
- Contact:
DOUG
I was pointing out that we have 16,000 single mothers serving in the military because I think it is terrible that, in addition to all the other suffering this needless war has caused, there is a kind of suffering often overlooked because it is not generally known: that there are thousands of children having to do without their only parent (because Bush lied us into a war and now doesn't know what to do about the mess he's caused).
Probably a significant number of the single mothers signed up for some form of military service because of the benefits and/or the guaranteed salary. That isn't stupid, and it is not immoral. The stupid, immoral one is the one who lied us into the thing in the first place.
I was pointing out that we have 16,000 single mothers serving in the military because I think it is terrible that, in addition to all the other suffering this needless war has caused, there is a kind of suffering often overlooked because it is not generally known: that there are thousands of children having to do without their only parent (because Bush lied us into a war and now doesn't know what to do about the mess he's caused).
Probably a significant number of the single mothers signed up for some form of military service because of the benefits and/or the guaranteed salary. That isn't stupid, and it is not immoral. The stupid, immoral one is the one who lied us into the thing in the first place.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
-
Hogeye
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:33 pm
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
- Contact:
Selling yourself into slavery for short-term gain is stupid. I'll admit that, for a few, it may be ignorance rather than stupidity. Maybe some were ignorant of the long history of rulers lying to get cannon-fodder for war. If its not made up Gulf of Tonkin attacks, its made-up WMDs. But it seems to me stupidity rather than ignorance that someone would believe that murdering strangers halfway around the world is "for freedom," and the various other braindead patriotic bromides.
It is certainly immoral to join a murder gang to kill strangers. It doesn't matter if its for the Crips, the Mafia, or a State. Apparently some people think that when mass-murder is for a State, that absolves them of moral culpability. But I suspect that most of those who join the murder gang do it for the money and training. They're willing to murder foreigners (or aid and abett such) for profit. I find that morally disgusting.
WindFem3, will you explain why you indentured yourself into slavery to (aid and abett) murder at the behest of ambitious politicians? I'd like to understand. Why would you feel no remorse? Do you think murder is okay if the State approves?
Correcting Barbara, anarchists like me do not assume that with no government "everybody plays nice." We do think that, when some don't play nice, polycentric law works better and is more moral than the coercive monopoly law of the State. It is the statists who are utopian, thinking that a State can stay limited (despite all evidence), and thinking that a monopoly of "legitimate" violence will not be captured by people who don't "play nice."
It is certainly immoral to join a murder gang to kill strangers. It doesn't matter if its for the Crips, the Mafia, or a State. Apparently some people think that when mass-murder is for a State, that absolves them of moral culpability. But I suspect that most of those who join the murder gang do it for the money and training. They're willing to murder foreigners (or aid and abett such) for profit. I find that morally disgusting.
WindFem3, will you explain why you indentured yourself into slavery to (aid and abett) murder at the behest of ambitious politicians? I'd like to understand. Why would you feel no remorse? Do you think murder is okay if the State approves?
Correcting Barbara, anarchists like me do not assume that with no government "everybody plays nice." We do think that, when some don't play nice, polycentric law works better and is more moral than the coercive monopoly law of the State. It is the statists who are utopian, thinking that a State can stay limited (despite all evidence), and thinking that a monopoly of "legitimate" violence will not be captured by people who don't "play nice."
"May the the last king be strangled in the guts of the last priest." - Diderot
With every drop of my blood I hate and execrate every form of tyranny, every form of slavery. I hate dictation. I love liberty. - Ingersoll
With every drop of my blood I hate and execrate every form of tyranny, every form of slavery. I hate dictation. I love liberty. - Ingersoll
I will add that we chose the Coast Guard because of the extreme unlikelihood that myson will ever have to go off to war. Although his work has been dangerous at times, it's nothing like that. I actually do wonder about the people who are currently enlisting in the Army and such, and whether they have a brain.
Barbara & Betsy
Thanks for the words of support.
I do, unfortunately, have a temper - and Hogeye's baiting and ignorance are simply beyond the pale at times. I find his ideas and comments especially bizarre considering that he (like the rest of us) benefits greatly from this flawed socio/political system under which we live - and yet he seems to have nothing but contempt for all facets of it. In no way will I ever defend everything the military does, but they do serve a function and are neccessary. In a perfect world there would be no NEED for a military, but that's a pie-in-the-sky dream (which is, I think, where Hogeye exists most of the time.) The reality is we have - and need - a military. Not all wars are fought for honorable purposes, of course. I would never be involved in the current war - nor would I have voluntarily served during the Vietnam era. But I cannot imagine what this world would be like had we not used force in WWII or WWI. I believe in defensive warfare. We shouldn't fight for purely political reasons.
Secondly, Hogeye - as usual - insults my intelligence and that of every other military veteran by intimating that we are either too stupid, foolish, ignorant, or motivated by selfishness to fully realize what we're doing by signing up for the military. No, I don't react well to that kind of insult. I may not be Einstein (or Dawkins), but I'm not dumb or naive, either. I knew full well what I was doing when I enlisted. I knew the benefits and I knew the price - and I did it consciously.
I find the concept of feeling "remorse" for having served seriously funny. I was never involved in torture, never had to kill anyone, never harmed a body when I was a Marine. But according to Hogeye, I guess I should feel some kind of personal responsibility for the past (and future) bad decisions of all Commanders-in-Chief. *LOL* Sorry, I do NOT.
Per Hogeye, I will say lastly that perhaps he simply doesn't have the gonads to serve and his ridiculous comments are coming from a place of shame and resentment. Or mayhap he's too busy getting high and dreaming of his ideal anarchic utopia. [Flame removed]
As for being a single parent when I was in? No, it wasn't easy. During my pregnancy I was required to sign a bundle of papers stating that I intended to stay in, and if I did I understood (in essence) that the Marine Corps would come first - not my child. I signed statements that I would not ask for - or expect - preferential treatment or duty assignments, amongst other things. I signed those papers, but the fact was by being a single mother I was shorting everyone: myself, the Corps, and my son. There were simply not enough hours in a day or energy in my psyche at that time to do everything I wanted to do well. I spent only about 3-4 waking hours per day with my son - and those were on regular days. Never mind the times I had to go to the field, participate in exercises, stand duty, or go TAD! So I left at the end of my contract, but I do not regret the years I served either before motherhood or after. The USMC was a family to me at a crucial time and I learned more there, I think, than I have from any other singular experience in my life - other than marriage and parenthood. The best people I've known, I met in the Corps: individuals of honesty, honor, humor, and a work ethic that wouldn't quit. Individuals who know what it's like and are willing to go to the wall for this country. Individuals, in other words, not at all like Hogeye.
Edited by Savonarola 20061128 0645: flame deleted
I do, unfortunately, have a temper - and Hogeye's baiting and ignorance are simply beyond the pale at times. I find his ideas and comments especially bizarre considering that he (like the rest of us) benefits greatly from this flawed socio/political system under which we live - and yet he seems to have nothing but contempt for all facets of it. In no way will I ever defend everything the military does, but they do serve a function and are neccessary. In a perfect world there would be no NEED for a military, but that's a pie-in-the-sky dream (which is, I think, where Hogeye exists most of the time.) The reality is we have - and need - a military. Not all wars are fought for honorable purposes, of course. I would never be involved in the current war - nor would I have voluntarily served during the Vietnam era. But I cannot imagine what this world would be like had we not used force in WWII or WWI. I believe in defensive warfare. We shouldn't fight for purely political reasons.
Secondly, Hogeye - as usual - insults my intelligence and that of every other military veteran by intimating that we are either too stupid, foolish, ignorant, or motivated by selfishness to fully realize what we're doing by signing up for the military. No, I don't react well to that kind of insult. I may not be Einstein (or Dawkins), but I'm not dumb or naive, either. I knew full well what I was doing when I enlisted. I knew the benefits and I knew the price - and I did it consciously.
I find the concept of feeling "remorse" for having served seriously funny. I was never involved in torture, never had to kill anyone, never harmed a body when I was a Marine. But according to Hogeye, I guess I should feel some kind of personal responsibility for the past (and future) bad decisions of all Commanders-in-Chief. *LOL* Sorry, I do NOT.
Per Hogeye, I will say lastly that perhaps he simply doesn't have the gonads to serve and his ridiculous comments are coming from a place of shame and resentment. Or mayhap he's too busy getting high and dreaming of his ideal anarchic utopia. [Flame removed]
As for being a single parent when I was in? No, it wasn't easy. During my pregnancy I was required to sign a bundle of papers stating that I intended to stay in, and if I did I understood (in essence) that the Marine Corps would come first - not my child. I signed statements that I would not ask for - or expect - preferential treatment or duty assignments, amongst other things. I signed those papers, but the fact was by being a single mother I was shorting everyone: myself, the Corps, and my son. There were simply not enough hours in a day or energy in my psyche at that time to do everything I wanted to do well. I spent only about 3-4 waking hours per day with my son - and those were on regular days. Never mind the times I had to go to the field, participate in exercises, stand duty, or go TAD! So I left at the end of my contract, but I do not regret the years I served either before motherhood or after. The USMC was a family to me at a crucial time and I learned more there, I think, than I have from any other singular experience in my life - other than marriage and parenthood. The best people I've known, I met in the Corps: individuals of honesty, honor, humor, and a work ethic that wouldn't quit. Individuals who know what it's like and are willing to go to the wall for this country. Individuals, in other words, not at all like Hogeye.
Edited by Savonarola 20061128 0645: flame deleted
"An independent mind, a strong heart, and a free soul."
-
Savonarola
- Mod@Large
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
- antispam: human non-spammer
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
- Location: NW Arkansas
Okay, fine. But I do believe I was implicitly called "immoral" and "stupid" to be held up for "ridicule and disdain" by Hogeye for something I did with six years out of my life . . . and somehow that's not considered a flame. A rose by any other name, it seems.Savonarola wrote:Despite several previous questionable comments throughout this thread, and regardless of anyone's personal opinion of other users, this board will not turn into a flame-fest. Please refrain from namecalling and personal attacks.
--Sav, Politics Moderator
"An independent mind, a strong heart, and a free soul."
One thing, Doug: unless things have drastically changed since my time, single parents cannot sign up for the military - at least not active duty. The only way one can is by signing over full legal custody of the child/children to someone else. Single parents in the service become that way either by divorce, widow/erhood, or unmarried pregnancy.Doug wrote:Probably a significant number of the single mothers signed up for some form of military service because of the benefits and/or the guaranteed salary.
"An independent mind, a strong heart, and a free soul."
-
Barbara Fitzpatrick
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:55 am
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
And of course, we are lumping together the Guard with the regular branches of the military. All too many of the military currently serving in Iraq signed up with no idea they'd be sent overseas because they signed up for the National Guard. Defense against attack, yes. Dealing with local emergencies like Katrina, yes. Even borrowed by the state next door, yes. Shipped to Iraq to kill people over nonexistant WMDs, no. The regular army, navy, marines, and air force all know they can potentially be deployed anywhere at any time. The Guard is only supposed to be called out in time of war, and we aren't supposed to start wars.
Sherry - I think the difference is that Hogeye wasn't speaking specifically to or about you, personally, with his inflammatory comments (you note he still hasn't acknowledged a "personal" aspect to them).
Sherry - I think the difference is that Hogeye wasn't speaking specifically to or about you, personally, with his inflammatory comments (you note he still hasn't acknowledged a "personal" aspect to them).
Barbara Fitzpatrick
Don't worry about it, Barbara. My hand has been properly slapped by Savonarola.Barbara Fitzpatrick wrote:Sherry - I think the difference is that Hogeye wasn't speaking specifically to or about you, personally, with his inflammatory comments (you note he still hasn't acknowledged a "personal" aspect to them).
I do take the crap that Hogeye said personally and literally - it's almost impossible not to. It's easy for him to sit on the mount and hide behind the label of "semantics", but the problem is you never actually know that you might be referring to the person sitting right next to you. Not all vets/single mothers walk around with a lapel pin showing their status.
"An independent mind, a strong heart, and a free soul."
-
Hogeye
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:33 pm
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
- Contact:
I don't fall for the Orwellian equivocation of "society" and "State." I appreciate the benefits of voluntary society (insofar as it is voluntary), but have nothing but contempt for that destroyer of society - the State. Until you can conceptually separate society and State, you cannot understand my position. If you identify society and State, you have been duped by rulers. Liberty and authority are opposites, intractable enemies.WindFem3 wrote:He [Hogeye] (like the rest of us) benefits greatly from this flawed socio/political system under which we live - and yet he seems to have nothing but contempt for all facets of it.
I agree 100%. The US has not had a defensive war since the War of Northern Aggression, and then it was the fighters from the seceeding states which were fighting defensively. The Spanish-American War was not for defense of the territorial integrity of the US, nor WWI. The only debatably defensive war was WWII, and then only against Japan, but even this is dubious upon closer examination. I.e. The US, by blockading Japan prior to Pearl Harbor, was arguably the aggressor.WindFem3 wrote:I believe in defensive warfare. We shouldn't fight for purely political reasons.
Certainly no US aggression or occupation since WWII has been defensive. Not one inch of US soil was occupied by foreign soldiers, nor bombed by a foreign State. Korea, Vietnam, Haiti, Bosnia, Serbia, and various other US interventions were not remotely defensive. Bottom line: The claim that the US military engages in defense is patently absurd. Every single one of the hundreds of military actions since WWII have been aggression pure and simple. To Orwell's "War is Peace" and "Freedom is Slavery, the US warmongers add "Defense is Aggression," and redefine "defense" from response against attack on our country to protection of friendly foreign rulers and the interests of crony corporations.
No, but you voluntarily joined a gang who did these things. You aided and abetted in mass murder. This is morally blameworthy.WindFem3 wrote:I was never involved in torture, never had to kill anyone, never harmed a body when I was a Marine.
Your willingness to put the interests of the murder gang above your own child speaks for itself.WindFem3 wrote:I was required to sign a bundle of papers stating that I intended to stay in, and if I did I understood (in essence) that the Marine Corps would come first - not my child.
People so stupid as to enslave themselves to the State to murder for politicians may well display, in some constrained and narrow sense, "honesty, honor, humor, and a work ethic that wouldn't quit." But they have been totally duped by the State, brainwashed into thinking that being murderers for the State is honorable, and are grossly immoral for doing so. Similar people were willing to "go to the wall" for Hitler and Pol Pot. This is not something to be proud of. As more and more young people figure that out, the ability of the US to engage in aggression and maintain its empire will dwindle.
"May the the last king be strangled in the guts of the last priest." - Diderot
With every drop of my blood I hate and execrate every form of tyranny, every form of slavery. I hate dictation. I love liberty. - Ingersoll
With every drop of my blood I hate and execrate every form of tyranny, every form of slavery. I hate dictation. I love liberty. - Ingersoll
-
Savonarola
- Mod@Large
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
- antispam: human non-spammer
- Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
- Location: NW Arkansas
Clearly, there is not only a single poster at fault for a single comment.Savonarola wrote:Despite several previous questionable comments throughout this thread, and regardless of anyone's personal opinion of other users, this board will not turn into a flame-fest. Please refrain from namecalling and personal attacks.
Frankly, I think that Hogeye is so far off base here that it should be easy to counter his points without resorting to namecalling. Flaming is not allowed, but unabashed roasting is. Let the readers decide who here is stupid, ignorant of the facts, insane, mentally handicapped, brainwashed, bonkers, etc., and who is not; you get to help them make that determination by using civil discussion, so do it wisely.WindFem3 wrote:But I do believe I was implicitly called "immoral" and "stupid" to be held up for "ridicule and disdain" by Hogeye for something I did with six years out of my life . . .
The line between what is allowed and what is not is fuzzy to begin with. If a user doesn't like the policies as enforced, that user may post in the Complaint forum. A site administrator other than the accused administrator (if necessary) will handle claims, and policy changes can be discussed.
-
Guest
All,
There is a lot of ground to cover in this thread! I just called and spoke to a Marine recruiter here in Springfield and my wife is correct. You cannot join any of the branches of the military, active, reserve or guard as a single parent. You can join if you sign over custody to some one else. This goes for male and female. Of course very few men have full custody of their children and very few women would give up custody of their children. So the majority of single parents in the service become single parents after they join. For some it is an accident because they do not use birth control or they are just caught up in the moment and bang you have a baby! Sometimes it is used as away out of the military. For women they are offered the oportunity to get out of the military; some do and some don't. Some, of course, are the product of divorce but they are not offered the opportunity to separate from the service. It is a very sad situation for the single parents and for all parents that end up separated from their children whether a war is justified or not. It would be wonderful to live in a peaceful world but people being what they are it will never happen - especially with the population on the increase.
Unfortunatly I live in the here and now and not in some pie-in-the-sky utopia that does not nor shall ever exist. This idea of anarchy is just as unworkable as communism. The idea of communism and a classless state will never work because even in a "perfect" communist state there are still two classes: government and workers. So you still have classes and just as the Soviets found out classes will just develop all on their own because everyone is trying to better their own lives - and not necessarily working for the betterment of the state.
It has been a long time since I took and anthropology class but I do remember that as populations grow, order is developed within groups and this is done for the survival of the group. A "pecking order" is eventually established to help increase the survival of the group. If I remember correctly, it works something like family-group-tribe-chieftan, etc. Each step develops a more complex hierarchal society and further division of labor to make the group more efficient, thereby allowing the group to grow in population and increase the chance of survival during hard times. There is a lot of archeological evidence for each side of that coin - those that survived and those that died out because their groups were either efficient and smart with the available resources or they were not.
So, out of desperation people resort to war to get someone else's resources in an attempt to increase their own odds of survival. This has been going on for thousands of years. Of course, like so many other things concerning warfare the reasons for going to war have evolved to include religion, politics and race - in addition to the seeking of resources. So in an effort to protect resources the tribe worked hard to grow-gather-preserve the tribe and must put together a militia/guard/army/whatever to protect itself against invading hords. To this very day we still must have a military because there is always someone out there who wants to take your resources or change your relegion/politics or commit genocide against your particular group. Those are the cold hard facts of the here-and-now and not some fantastical utopia.
Now for my "immoral and stupid" service with the United States Marine Corps . . .
I chose to join the military for many reasons. I always thought I would like a military career. My father worked for the VA and I knew a lot of veterans - some had retired and some had just surved their 2, 3, or 4 years. Many of them had stories of different adventures in foreign countries and I saw that as an oportunity to see the world. Unfortunately my family did not have the resources to help me go to college. During most of my high school years I worked just to help the family keep our family farm. Alas, after graduating from high school I was unable to attend college and fulfill my dream of becoming a songwriter/chessmaster. Instead I joined the Marine Corps. Thanks to my service I was able to attend the college of my choice (U of Oklahoma) and now hold a job I very much enjoy that has many benefits for my entire family.
I have gone on long enough about this. The bottom line is whether we like it or not we need a military and we need a government to serve the people. It is a crime when either one is misused or abused. Anarchy will be the begining of the end of our spiecies. In all fairness, though, I intend to visit Hogeye's website to read his "Anarchy Manifesto" because I am willing to try to see the subject from a different point of view.
Of course I'm biased, but as far as being "immoral and stupid" go . . . watch for the next post from WindfFem3!
There is a lot of ground to cover in this thread! I just called and spoke to a Marine recruiter here in Springfield and my wife is correct. You cannot join any of the branches of the military, active, reserve or guard as a single parent. You can join if you sign over custody to some one else. This goes for male and female. Of course very few men have full custody of their children and very few women would give up custody of their children. So the majority of single parents in the service become single parents after they join. For some it is an accident because they do not use birth control or they are just caught up in the moment and bang you have a baby! Sometimes it is used as away out of the military. For women they are offered the oportunity to get out of the military; some do and some don't. Some, of course, are the product of divorce but they are not offered the opportunity to separate from the service. It is a very sad situation for the single parents and for all parents that end up separated from their children whether a war is justified or not. It would be wonderful to live in a peaceful world but people being what they are it will never happen - especially with the population on the increase.
Unfortunatly I live in the here and now and not in some pie-in-the-sky utopia that does not nor shall ever exist. This idea of anarchy is just as unworkable as communism. The idea of communism and a classless state will never work because even in a "perfect" communist state there are still two classes: government and workers. So you still have classes and just as the Soviets found out classes will just develop all on their own because everyone is trying to better their own lives - and not necessarily working for the betterment of the state.
It has been a long time since I took and anthropology class but I do remember that as populations grow, order is developed within groups and this is done for the survival of the group. A "pecking order" is eventually established to help increase the survival of the group. If I remember correctly, it works something like family-group-tribe-chieftan, etc. Each step develops a more complex hierarchal society and further division of labor to make the group more efficient, thereby allowing the group to grow in population and increase the chance of survival during hard times. There is a lot of archeological evidence for each side of that coin - those that survived and those that died out because their groups were either efficient and smart with the available resources or they were not.
So, out of desperation people resort to war to get someone else's resources in an attempt to increase their own odds of survival. This has been going on for thousands of years. Of course, like so many other things concerning warfare the reasons for going to war have evolved to include religion, politics and race - in addition to the seeking of resources. So in an effort to protect resources the tribe worked hard to grow-gather-preserve the tribe and must put together a militia/guard/army/whatever to protect itself against invading hords. To this very day we still must have a military because there is always someone out there who wants to take your resources or change your relegion/politics or commit genocide against your particular group. Those are the cold hard facts of the here-and-now and not some fantastical utopia.
Now for my "immoral and stupid" service with the United States Marine Corps . . .
I chose to join the military for many reasons. I always thought I would like a military career. My father worked for the VA and I knew a lot of veterans - some had retired and some had just surved their 2, 3, or 4 years. Many of them had stories of different adventures in foreign countries and I saw that as an oportunity to see the world. Unfortunately my family did not have the resources to help me go to college. During most of my high school years I worked just to help the family keep our family farm. Alas, after graduating from high school I was unable to attend college and fulfill my dream of becoming a songwriter/chessmaster. Instead I joined the Marine Corps. Thanks to my service I was able to attend the college of my choice (U of Oklahoma) and now hold a job I very much enjoy that has many benefits for my entire family.
I have gone on long enough about this. The bottom line is whether we like it or not we need a military and we need a government to serve the people. It is a crime when either one is misused or abused. Anarchy will be the begining of the end of our spiecies. In all fairness, though, I intend to visit Hogeye's website to read his "Anarchy Manifesto" because I am willing to try to see the subject from a different point of view.
Of course I'm biased, but as far as being "immoral and stupid" go . . . watch for the next post from WindfFem3!