Freethinker Summary Response to Steve Worden

[Dardedar]

After Steve Worden wrote his second error filled column about the billboard and our group, Doug sat down and wrote a detailed response. He limited it to 500 words hoping it would be published as a letter to editor. When we sent it out to our list saying "the paper has so far declined to print it" they wrote back and said they weren't declining but just had been very busy. They then reiterated that their policy is not to have theological debates (not that the errors we have been correcting Worden on have been theological) and would let us and Worden have 500 words each to wrap things up. So we sat down and put together this final wrap up which appears below.

We are pleased to report that the paper did print this in Thursday's edition. Worden's response is not posted on their website (not everything is) or anywhere else it seems. Maybe they'll put it up later. When I asked him for permission to put his comments online last time, he didn't bother to respond.

A small note. In the intro to our responses the paper gives a little summary/history of our exchanges and then wrote:

"In this issue we will close the topic with a "cage match." Fire on the Mountain vs. Fayetteville Freethinkers. Let the works fly."

It's not exactly a cage match when the other party is given an advance copy of your article. We know they leaked a copy of our response to Worden because he quotes it in his response.

If Worden makes his response available online we'll gladly link to it or post it here. He brings up some new issues and recycles the old ones too. I am very pleased with the exchange. Worden's response is weak. We will go through it in this thread and give it a thorough rebuttal so you will get to see all of his main points responded to. I also plan to go over this whole saga at our meeting next Saturday.

***
ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW

Steve Worden misread our sign.

In April, local freethinker groups joined with the National Coalition of Reason and rented a billboard stating:

"Are you good without God? Millions Are." --NWACoR.org

Steve Worden misunderstood this as an attack on religion, so he attacked us. In his columns he claimed we are gullible believers in Bigfoot (false), follow Free Inquiry magazine as a Bible (false), and we're an atheist group (false). In another column he joked about us having Nazi plays, communist hymns and crayons for kids to draw pictures celebrating genocide (false, insulting, disgusting).

We’ve refuted these claims, and if he would like to make some more, we'll knock those down too.
We encourage you to read and comment on our rebuttals here:

http://tinyurl.com/26z9rsg

Why did Worden so profoundly overreact in this way? Our billboard was not anti-religion, it was an appeal to our own people. There are tens of thousands of people living, working and volunteering in Northwest Arkansas and they do it without appeals to the supernatural. We wanted them to know that they're not alone and if they want to associate with others who choose to form their beliefs about religion based upon reason, science and critical thinking, we’re here.

It would be better if writers used their privilege of having a newspaper column to bring people together rather than alienate and divide them.

Here’s a note our friend Linda Farrell sent in:

"The Fayetteville Freethinker meetings are a breath of fresh air for unrepentant thinkers. Now, what do we get for our zero-dues-per-year freethinker meetings?

Socially, we get to meet super-intelligent, passionate, articulate, reasonable, rational, curious, informed, engaging people, all of whom have a sense of humor - no exceptions. We also get the bonus of dining afterward in restaurants I didn't know existed in the area.

Intellectually, we get to learn about, question, debate and expose all sorts of paranormal and inherently silly things, e.g. Bigfoot, Nessie, talking snakes, virgin births, heaven, hell and other assorted unprovables. The presentations are always top-notch and well-prepared and thorough. The questions asked are really intuitive and differences in opinion and perspective always thoughtful and respectful. Nobody calls anybody an "idiot", "a Commie", "a traitor" or any other insults you hear regularly tossed about in church, at tea parties or in poorly-researched newspaper columns.

We don't claim moral superiority or exhibit any kind of humorless religious arrogance. We don't hate god, simply because it's irrational to hate an entity whose existence has never been proven. And we don't consort with satan for the same reason. We base our beliefs on hard science, observation, empirical evidence and peer-reviewed journals. And our moral code isn't based on fear of punishment or the promise of reward. We hold ourselves accountable for our own behavior. To quote the Christmas song, we believe in being "good for goodness sake."

Finally, we enjoy a shared respect for each other, our laws, our society, our planet and our species. For Worden, apparently, this makes us "dangerous."

Fayfreethinkers.com

Washington County Observer, Thursday, August 19, 2010.

[ignosticmorgan]

And we are in fox holes! We have erudite tomes with solid arguments.
Oh, some atheists do partake of the paranormal and believe n the future state, but that seldom is the case. Charles Ducasse believed in the future state on account of his beleiving in the woo of the paranormal, and JohmMcTggart Ellis McTaggart on the account of his metaphysics.
That is why I refer to myself as a naturalist, rationalist and skeptic. To bad the eminent skeptic Martin Gardner was a fideistic deist!
And we don't do death-bed confessions [ Christopher Hitchings already has stated that only were he senile would he ever recant. Remember Lady Hope's lie about Charles Robert Darwin's one!
Creationists lie to save morality! It sounds the same for Worden!

[Dardedar]

The Washington County Observer has posted our above response and Worden's An Apology.

Note that they do have a comment section but it seems rather slow with no comments so far.

[Savonarola]

Note that they do have a comment section but it seems rather slow with no comments so far.

I just submitted a comment, but I suspect that it won't pass moderation because I included truths about the dirty inside operation of the paper. Perhaps someone else can stomach telling it almost as it is. My submission there is copied here:

After reading Steve Worden's article, "An Apology," I find myself underwhelmed. And unconvinced.

Even in his "apology," Worden exemplifies the very issues that caused his vitriolic response. He begins by presenting his tortured logic behind “misunderstanding” the sign. Are we really expected to believe that a "Good without Dogs" billboard could reasonably be construed as an insult to dogs or dog owners? "That's how I read the sign," he said. Clearly, Worden has some reading comprehension issues.

Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised. The Freethinkers already pointed out Worden's reading troubles. When they located the source for his claims, they found that not only were his statements not supported by the study, some were contradicted! Yet despite the revealing of his mistakes, Worden chose to repeat the bogus claims in his "final" column on the topic.

This finality is interesting, too. Worden has a weekly column in which he has been given a wide berth in terms of both topic and – apparently – accuracy. This particular column opens with a response to the Freethinkers' article, meaning that Worden was supplied with their response first, and he will apparently continue to have a weekly column. The Freethinkers, however, have been informed that no more of their responses will be run because the Observer's publisher is not interested in "tiring the readers." This is immeasurably hypocritical: the publisher expresses pride in "offer[ing] a forum for discussion” and will continue Worden's columns "concerning matters of faith" yet refuses further discussion on matters of faith from the Freethinkers.

What do the readers get to keep reading? They get to read Worden continue to deceive the readers about the studies he doesn't bother to cite. They get to read him "apologize" while explaining that he feels that mocking is an appropriate response. They get to read him imply that the billboard said anything negative about him. They get to read that he didn't really believe the reprehensible accusations that he pointed at the Fayetteville Freethinkers, as if that fact somehow makes the remarks excusable.
That is to say, the readers get to keep reading his tripe.

Worden finishes by "complimenting" the Freethinkers because they challenge the faithful to stand up for their beliefs, but the Freethinkers standing up for their own beliefs is the action that ultimately flipped Worden's lid. Is there any wonder that -- in an environment in which Worden's actions are both commonplace and tolerated -- the local non-faithful might want to band together for support? How dare they, huh Steve?

[Savonarola]

I just submitted a comment, but I suspect that it won't pass moderation because I included truths about the dirty inside operation of the paper.

Over 24 hours later, and my comment is still "awaiting moderation."

"Proud to provide a forum for discussion"? I call bullshit. You know, again.

[Savonarola]

Over 24 hours later, and my comment is still "awaiting moderation."

For the record: Sometime over the weekend, my comment was approved. There appears to be another comment in the moderation queue; we'll see how long it takes to show up, and if it's interesting.

[NatalieSmith01]

Fully agree with you.
Comment approval should be a little more fast I guess.