Access Denied

[Dardedar]

Access Denied

From this week's Insider: Two weeks ago we reported on the efforts of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers to put up a winter solstice display on the grounds of the state Capitol. Their application was denied last year because the secretary of state's office said it was not clear on the type of display to be erected. This year, the group submitted a detailed description along with a website, complete with pictures, showing exactly what they had in mind. Their request was, once again, denied.

The reason? Tod Billings, founding member and president of ASF, isn't so sure. The letter the organization received from Charlie Daniels' office simply said their request had been denied and offered no further explanation.

“It's totally a joke,” Billings says. “That letter does not explain what is going on. If there was something offensive in it, they could have pointed that out. But we didn't attack anybody. What other conclusion could be reached other than they are just summarily saying no and free speech is just a sham? That's all there is to it.”

A spokesperson for the secretary of state said the display was not "consistent with the holiday tone" they are trying to create on the Capitol grounds.

Holly Dickson, staff attorney for ACLU Arkansas, says the situation is under review.

“It's a pretty clear rule about how we use the space on the Capitol lawn. The thing that makes it constitutional to use our government property for displays is the fact that all different points of view have equal access and consideration. So it's troubling to think that we might be in a situation where they haven't been given that consideration,” Dickson says.

Natasha Naragon, the public affairs coordinator for the secretary of state's office, said the request was denied because the “tone” of the display was “not consistent with the holiday tone that our office is striving to create on the Capitol grounds during the holiday season.”

When asked what “holiday tone” meant, Naragon said, “You can look at the other decorations that we have on the grounds. That's clearly what we've determined to be appropriate in the holiday tone that we are striving to create. This display, as explained to us, does not fit in with our holiday decorations.” The displays typically have included lights, a Nativity scene maintained by an independent organization and Christmas trees.

From: The Arkansas Blog

[kwlyon]

Okay...I'll be the sour puss. I don't think ANY such displays should be put up. This is not a festival ground, it is a capitol building. I am not offended by displays, I just feel like it is impossible to appease everyone without creating a real cluster-fuck. Ba! Humbug!

Kevin

[Savonarola]

Okay...I'll be the sour puss.

Fine, but I'll agree with you.

That said, Tod's point is valid. If this is what we're going to use the lawn for, it has to be done without violating rights.

[Dardedar]

I completely agree. And I think that is kinda their point (hopefully). These displays shouldn't be up, but if you are going to allow religious displays, you can't be discriminating.

[kwlyon]

That said, Tod's point is valid. If this is what we're going to use the lawn for, it has to be done without violating rights.

Absolutely...But I must be honest, I don't understand what all the big fuss is about anyways. I have seen these EVIL ATHEIST signs. I am usually the one around here with the bleeding heart trying to protect the feelings of the ridiculously sensitive christian population. They need to suck it up. I understand their position...it was mine not too terribly long ago, though I must admit it seems as if another life. I was a whiny little puss. They need to get over themselves. If they want to express their beliefs on the lawn of a public building...they best get ready for the Muslims to do the same.

[Doug]

From this week's Insider: Two weeks ago we reported on the efforts of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers to put up a winter solstice display on the grounds of the state Capitol. Their application was denied last year because the secretary of state's office said it was not clear on the type of display to be erected. This year, the group submitted a detailed description along with a website, complete with pictures, showing exactly what they had in mind. Their request was, once again, denied.

DOUG
Darrel just text-messaged me. The Little Rock group just won the court case and can put up their display!

[Dardedar]

Facebook message to the members of Arkansas Society of Freethinkers.

Subject: Solstice Display at the State Capital

"Susan just called and asked me to get out the news, I am sure she will post more information when she can. Our group has won their case!!! That's right folks, WE WON! Our Freethinkers display will be shown on the state capital grounds. A big THANK YOU to those who worked hard to make this project successful."

[Doug]

See here.
LITTLE ROCK — Secretary of State Charlie Daniels violated free speech rights when he rejected a “winter solstice” display at the state Capitol by a group opposed to the nativity scene displayed annually at Arkansas’ seat of government, a federal judge ruled today.

U.S. District Judge Susan Webber Wright’s ruling cleared the way for the display proposed by the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers.

The Arkansas chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union filed a federal lawsuit after Daniels rejected the group’s written application to put up a display that would describe the meaning and history of the winter solstice.

The group had asked for an expedited hearing so it could erect the display before the winter solstice on Dec. 21. Freethinkers member Mark Love said his organization plans to put up the display Wednesday or Thursday.

“We like the outcome. We wanted to be included in the holiday season and we are,” Love said.

He said his group was not anti-Christian or anti-Christmas.

“No, this was about being included in the holiday … why not make the holiday time more inclusive, not less,” Love said.

Daniels told reporters after the hearing that his office would work with the group.
“We will comply with the order,” he said.


A short report on the court ruling and the situation:

The state of Arkansas will officially recognize winter solstice as well as Christmas this holiday season, thanks to a federal court order allowing Albert Einstein, Eleanor Roosevelt, Bill Gates and other "freethinkers" to share a spot near the Capitol's entrance with the baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

The 8-foot by 4-foot winter solstice display, which includes photos of Einstein and other famous freethinkers, was built by the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers. "Our goal is to be included in the holiday season, which we think is big enough to accommodate everyone," society member Bill Parker said.

The season wasn't quite big enough before the court order.

See here.

Another one:
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — A secular display celebrating the winter solstice and "freethinkers" such as Albert Einstein and Bill Gates can be placed at the state Capitol alongside a traditional Christian nativity scene, a federal judge said Monday.

The Arkansas Society of Freethinkers sued last week after Secretary of State Charlie Daniels rejected its proposal, saying it wasn't consistent with the Capitol's other decorations and displays. The group asked for a quick hearing before the winter solstice, which is Dec. 21.

U.S. District Judge Susan Webber Wright granted an injunction Monday allowing the display to go up.

The group never wanted to remove the nativity display, said Tod Billings, president of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers. Billings said he hoped the display would go up Wednesday and that it would remain until the nativity scene came down after the holidays.

"We just wanted the freedom to be included in the holiday celebrations publicly, just like anybody else can do if they fill out the appropriate paperwork," Billings said.

Natasha Naragon, a spokeswoman for the secretary of state's office, said that they respected the judge's decision and that they'll work with the group to erect the display.

See here.

[L.Wood]

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Some story and video is here.

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[L.Wood]

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Rwinger blog gets permission for Festivus Pole.

see here.



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[tmiller51]

Here's a TV station poll related to the Soltice display:

Do you agree with the decision to allow a nonreligious winter solstice display at the State Capitol?

Tim

[L.Wood]

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Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At State Capitol
Comptroller Candidate William J. Kelly Tries To Take Down Sign, Is Escorted From Building

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (CBS) A conservative activist and Illinois comptroller candidate was escorted from the Illinois State Capitol building Wednesday when he tried to remove a sign put up by an atheist group.

William J. Kelly announced Tuesday that he planned to take down the sign put up by the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and on Wednesday, he tried to make good on his plan.

But Kelly said when he turned the sign around so it was face down, state Capitol police were quick to escort him away.

Illinois Secretary of State's office spokeswoman Henry Haupt said Kelly was escorted from the rotunda by state Capitol police, who briefly detained him, wrote an incident report, and directed him to leave the building.

continue here

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[Betsy]

This was Greg Harton's OP/Ed column in the Northwest Arkansas Times on Monday, Dec. 28th. It's just about the dumbest thing he's ever written. Since I don't subscribe to them anymore, I will type it in:

It's tough to be a spoiler. You've seen them before. They're the folks who interfere with a perfectly fine tradition embraced by the masses all because the spoilers don't agree with the majority's viewpoint. (me: so now we're supposed to just go along with things if it's the majority's viewpoint?! wow. What about health care reform, Greg?)

When the spoilers show up, the crowd can almost always be heard muttering "But we've always done it this way."

The latest spoilers in the state are members of the Arkansas Society of Free Thinkers (sic), who sued Ark. Sec. of State Charlie Daniels over his rejection of their request to set up a silly free thinkers (sic) disply on the grounds of the state Capitol.

They call it a monument to the winter solstice, which is tantamount to setting up a monument to dirt, or rock, or air. Those free thinkers (sic) really know what to believe in. (me: yeah, because you believing in a mythological being is ever so much wiser, Greg)

The exhibit isn't so much about the winter solstice as it is about evolution, free thinking, and books that support those concepts.

What the whole episode is really about is the opportunity for these free thinkers (sic) to stick their fingers in the eyes of people of faith. On its Web site, the society says the motivating force behind the display's creation is to counter the Nativity scene displayed on the grounds of the state Capitol.

So, yes, they pretty much embrace the role of spoiler.

As one would expect, a federal judge responded to the free thinkers' (sic) lawsuit against the state by granting a preliminary injunction requiring Daniels to permit the free thinkers' (sic) exhibit, called the Box of Knowledge, on the Capitol grounds. (me: why would one "expect" this, Greg? Maybe because it is the fair and just thing to do to avoid discrimination?)

Daniels had rejected their proposal on the basis that he wanted to maintain some parameters for the number of displays at the Capitol and because the little shack the free thinkers (sic) put together isn't much to look at.

The shack has four sides: One explaining how there have been celebrations of the winter solstice throughout history; one explaining evolutionary theories; one advancing the free thinkers (sic) group; and one displaying covers of books the group hopes people will read to free themselves from centuries of religious dogma. (me: one can only hope)

The free thinkers (sic) largely put their faith in man. (me: why do people like Greg always want to point to where someone puts their "faith"? That's totally missing the point, but because they've invested their whole lives in "faith" they think everyone else has, too.) It's episodes like this that illustrates how misplaced such faith can be.

I understand their constitutional point. The limits on governmenta; power in the U.S. Constitution are geared toward ensuring the federal authorities don't establish one faith or religion. Most of the time, it seems government has successfully remained as godless as it can. (me: Really? REALLY?!? Jesus!)

People of faith are the ones best served by such prohibitions. Nobody should want a government that injects itself into our lives to the point of embracing one set of beliefs over another.

But (me: you knew there'd be a "but" after THAT statement, didn't you?) situations such as the one created by the free thinkers (sic) leaves (sic) me shaking my head. The existence of the Nativity scene on the Capital grounds has no more established a state religion than the creation of a minument honoring fallen firefighters turns the state's populations in the firefighters. (me: I'm sorry, but is that the dumbest argument you've ever heard, or is it just me?)

The entire exercise is geared toward tearing down a tradition most Arkansans don't mind one bit, and my problem with it is that it's this group's whole motivation. They could care less about winter solstice. (me: a pet peeve: it's actually "they COULDN'T care less..." if they COULD care less, that means they care. Jesus!) That's just the best excuse for a display they could find close to Christmas.

I wonder if the state shouldn't just limit displays to those related to national holidays. It happens that Christmas is, indeed, a national holiday. Winter solstice is not. Hey, if it's constitutional for the nation to have a federal holiday on Christmas, isn't that standard good enough for the Arkansas secretary of state?

But in the interest of free speech protections, perhaps the state would need to let the free thinkers (sic) have a display at some other time.

I'd recommend Feb. 12. That has to be the equivalent of Christmas for those free thinkers (sic). It's Charles Darwin's birthday. Surely that's a far more significant event for the free thinkers (sic) than the inconsequential observance of a baby's birth in a Bethlehem stable.

____________________________________

Apparently Greg Harton, the editor of the NWA Times, believes that if "most people" believe something, then everyone else should just keep their pie hole shut.

[Doug]

When the spoilers show up, the crowd can almost always be heard muttering "But we've always done it this way."

DOUG
Saying that one should preserve what has always been done on the grounds that it is tradition is called the appeal to tradition. It's a fallacy. In fact, I teach it in my philosophy classes every semester. It's in the section of our philosophy book on fallacies. This author sure likes poor reasoning, as Betsy has pointed out.

[Savonarola]

Apparently Greg Harton, the editor of the NWA Times, believes that if "most people" believe something, then everyone else should just keep their pie hole shut.

Harton needs to be invited to a Fayetteville Freethinker meeting so he can write an article on how he got humiliated by people he looks down upon.

It's 5 a.m., so this isn't as pristine as I'd like, but here'd be my untouched response:

I'm a spoiler. I challenge things that many people would rather remain unchallenged, and I very often have the better argument. That is to say, I'm right. Greg Harton is not.

Alternatively, one could argue that I'm not a spoiler. Harton's arguments are already rotten without my response.

Harton argues that the spoilers should pipe down because a tradition exists. This is the fallacy of appeal to tradition. It is a fallacy taught in basic philosophy and logic courses, neither of which appear to be a part of Harton's education.

Harton mocks a monument to the winter solstice as being equivalent to recognizing dirt, rock, or air. Frankly, I like all three of these examples -- even more so than I like the solstice. If Mr. Harton doesn't like these things, he is free to deprive himself of them. (The fact that these three things -- plus the solstice -- can actually be observed is apparently lost on Harton, who would rather spend his time supporting displays to honor an invisible sky man.)

Of course, Harton -- in his infinitesimal wisdom -- has missed the point. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that he has missed every point.

The Arkansas Society of Freethinkers won their challenge because Daniels's decision violated the law. Separation of church and state doesn't mean only that no establishment is allowed; it means that no favoritism is allowed: all religions (and non-religions) must be treated equally. The best policy -- which everybody, regardless of one's specific beliefs, should realize -- is for the government to avoid the issue entirely. As soon as one religion's display is approved, all others must be approved, be they Jewish, non-theistic, Rastafarian, or Pastafarian. Harton acknowledges that the display is in response to the nativity scene already present on the Capitol grounds, yet he still describes the Freethinkers' display as an attempt "to stick their fingers in the eyes of people of faith." It seems that Harton has trouble taking an objective viewpoint; apparently he thinks that everything's totally cool when the finger-poking goes the other way.

Harton claims that Freethinkers put their faith in man. This is nonsense in every sense. Freethinkers don't put "faith" in anything, because faith is -- by definition -- unreasonable. Freethinkers -- by definition -- draw their conclusions based upon reason. Harton thinks otherwise because he not only has trouble using a dictionary but also has severe reasoning problems, as demonstrated above... and below.

Harton points out that Christmas is a national holiday, suggesting that it is treated differently than other religious holy days. I agree. Now, I'm not aware of a non-Christian push to eliminate Christmas's status as a national holiday, but now that the point has been raised, perhaps some headway can be made in the interest of religious equality. Isn't it interesting how one's singular-minded, entirely internalized approach to an issue can sometimes expose the absurdity nearly as well as not being a self-important jackass? Thank you for making the readers aware of this specific religious neutrality issue, Mr. Harton. I couldn't have done it better myself.

Finally, because a healthy dose of embarrassment just isn't the same without a well-deserved smack of reality-based humiliation, consider what Harton claims to be his main point: that the freethinkers are engaged in a despicable, deliberate overthrowing of tradition. Harton belittles the Freethinker display as "not much to look at," but his own boneheaded argument shows precisely why this information should be viewed. Even if we were to accept the preposterous notion that a tradition's existence gives it certain protections from contradicting co-temporal ideas, note that the display contains the historical information showing that the religious holiday of Christmas had its origins as a "competitor" to the preexisting pagan rituals celebrating the winter solstice. How dare those early Christians concoct a nonsense story about a birthing in a stable when perfectly innocent solstice celebrations already existed? If they really wanted a solstice celebration, couldn't they have waited until, oh, June?

[Savonarola]

It's 5 a.m., so this isn't as pristine as I'd like, but here'd be my untouched response:

I just remembered that I was going to work in a dig comparing the absurdity of celebrating a day like the solstice to the perfectly normal practice of celebrating a day arbitrarily selected to begin a new Gregorian year. Only whiny little anti-religionists celebrate days.

[Betsy]

Sav, I hope you'll send that in to the paper and everyone else will, too - but it's unlikely anything will get printed. Ever since the merger of papers, the letters to the editor - nay, the entire op/ed page has become extremely conservative and hardly any letters from Fayetteville are ever printed.

[Savonarola]

Sav, I hope you'll send that in to the paper ...

Nah, I'd like to keep my job. And life.

[kwlyon]

Hey, since you guys are so big on trying to reestablish the separation of church and state would you mind seeing if you can't fix it so I can buy a beer from wall-mart on sunday? Oh...wait I forgot. That has nothing to do with Jesus Day. What was the reasoning behind blue laws again I always forget...

Kevin