Atheism and Good Citizenship

[Doug]

Doug Krueger writes:

Statistically, belief in an afterlife does not seem to provide any safeguard against immoral actions.

For example, the number of believers (in God) in prison far outnumbers the nonbelievers. Furthermore, the number of believers in prison are proportionately the same as that of the number of believers in the general population. However, the the number of nonbelievers in prison are proportionately far below the number of nonbelievers in the general population. So, if the statistics are to be believed, either nonbelievers break the law at a rate less than that of believers, proportionately, or nonbelievers are much better at evading capture and/or imprisonment. Given the unliklihood of the latter, it seems that nonbelievers are more law-abiding than the population of believers. (At least in the U.S.)

To the extent that obeying the law reflects the extent to which one is moral, nonbelievers are more moral than believers. Hence belief in eternal, postmortem punishment or reward is not a necessary condition for being moral, nor does it seem to provide additional incentive for being moral. In fact, the opposite seems to be true.

Here are some statistics for the U.S. and Canada (scroll down to the part about prison statistics, about halfway down the page):

See here.

Note that this includes the following breakdown of the U.S. Federal Prison population in 1997:

Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.

Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons 96968

So we have:
Prison Population 1997 U.S. Prisoners: Atheist 0.209%, which is 156 of 74,731 respondents.
Source: Federal Bureau of Prisons

The source letter with the statistics from the Federal Bureau of Prisons can be found online here.


Here's another site, with several references, although somewhat dated (one survey is from 1928) or poorly referenced:

See here.

These are the statistics we have, from the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The theists who disparage these numbers have nothing to show that these statistics are incorrect except speculation. So the burden on the religious is to show that these numbers are false. To simply assume that many prisoners are lying, or that they claim to be religious only to get paroled, is just speculation.

One thing I like to mention, too, when I am discussing this in debates (on morality, usually) is that the rate of recidivism is usually fairly high. According to Wikipedia, "In the United States, 68% percent of males and 58% of females are rearrested, and 53% and 39% respectively are re-incarcerated." [Visher, Christy A. 2003. “Transitions From Prison To Community: Understanding Individual Pathways”. The Urban Institute, Justice Policy Center, District of Columbia Washington, 2003] Wikipedia again: "According to a national study, within 3 years almost 7 out of 10 released males will find themselves back in prison." (Same citation.)

Here's what I say: "So the majority of prisoners, as far as we can determine, are religious when they go into prison, they are religious when they are released, and they are religious when go on to commit more crimes." I usually make this exact statement whenever I discuss this subject.

Icing on the cake: According to a 2006 study by Matt Kelley, there was more recidivism in the southern states, particularly in the Midwestern region. [Kelley, Matt. “Monday Map: Helping Parolees Rebuild.” March 09, 2009. See here.]

Once again we see that the most religious part of the U.S. has the most problems.

[kwlyon]

Furthermore, the number of believers in prison are proportionately the same as that of the number of believers in the general population. However, the the number of nonbelievers in prison are proportionately far below the number of nonbelievers in the general population.

I think you may have worded this incorrectly. Assuming one is either a "believer" or a "nonbeliever", which I do not believe to be a false dichotomy, then this constitutes epic math fail. Is there a third option here?

Excellent post however, in looking for some explanation of this trend, I would focus my investigations into any possible correlation between degree of religious affiliation and socioeconomic status.

[Savonarola]

Excellent post however, in looking for some explanation of this trend, I would focus my investigations into any possible correlation between degree of religious affiliation and socioeconomic status.

I think it's also worth looking into:

1. More recent numbers
2. Any impetus to lie about being irreligious (e.g. Are there special programs for believers that lead to early release that non-believers try to enter to shorten their incarceration?)

Regarding #2, I don't actually think that this is a significant factor when it comes to the overall conclusion, but it would be nice to shut up the religio-bots when they accuse those evil criminal atheists of lying to get into the clearly unconstitutional preference-based "rehabilitation" programs.

[Doug]

Excellent post however, in looking for some explanation of this trend, I would focus my investigations into any possible correlation between degree of religious affiliation and socioeconomic status.

DOUG
Done. There is a correlation. I think this explains a lot. Since atheists tend to be more intelligent than the rest of the population (and the least religiously dogmatic/fundamentalist Christian denomiations are also the most educated, such as the Episcopals and the Unitarian Universalists, etc.), and criminals tend to have less education compared to the rest of the population, it is no wonder that most criminals are religious.

I think it's also worth looking into:

1. More recent numbers

DOUG
None available, as far as I can tell. These stats are not commonly available.

2. Any impetus to lie about being irreligious (e.g. Are there special programs for believers that lead to early release that non-believers try to enter to shorten their incarceration?)

DOUG
It is possible that parole boards look more favorably on those who claim to be religious. But that is speculation. If this statistic holds up for lifers who have no chance for parole, that would be telling, though. No such data available as far as I know.

It is also the case that prisoners get out of their cells to go to religious services, so there is a bonus involved in claiming to belong to a religion, but the bonus is to get out of the cell for church.

Regarding #2, I don't actually think that this is a significant factor when it comes to the overall conclusion, but it would be nice to shut up the religio-bots when they accuse those evil criminal atheists of lying to get into the clearly unconstitutional preference-based "rehabilitation" programs.

DOUG
It has been shown statistically that religion-based rehabilitation programs such as those run by Chuck Colson just don't work. The recidivism rate is exactly the same as people who do not go through any such program.

[kwlyon]

Done. There is a correlation. I think this explains a lot. Since atheists tend to be more intelligent than the rest of the population (and the least religiously dogmatic/fundamentalist Christian denomiations are also the most educated, such as the Episcopals and the Unitarian Universalists, etc.), and criminals tend to have less education compared to the rest of the population, it is no wonder that most criminals are religious....

It has been shown statistically that religion-based rehabilitation programs such as those run by Chuck Colson just don't work. The recidivism rate is exactly the same as people who do not go through any such program.

Of course, and in this correlation, I am certain, lies causality. What I am getting at is religion does not cause crime or make criminals in general. The moral teachings of religion include those that are necessary for a stable society. This has to be the case or religion could not have evolved as such an integral part of our society. There is, however, a difference in being told that a behavior is wrong and UNDERSTANDING WHY it is wrong. Those who truly examine and understand their values are more likely to abide by them.

All this being said however, I am not suggesting one should not throw this in the face of the cocky religious who attempt to blame all the worlds ill's on the godless. These people are being intentionally obtuse and dishonest. By all means shove that metaphoric dick in their ego.

Kevin

[Doug]

What I am getting at is religion does not cause crime or make criminals in general. The moral teachings of religion include those that are necessary for a stable society. This has to be the case or religion could not have evolved as such an integral part of our society.

DOUG
Religion has caused criminals and enabled criminals for millennia. Look at the genocide in the Bible. To the extent to which these are actual events, they were justified by "God told us to do it." Hitler appealed to God, and the anti-Semitism to which he appealed was religion-based. Muslim countries treat women in a way that I consider criminal, yet it is, strictly-speaking, not against the law (over there). And it is purely religion-based.

Religion has been part of stable societies, but so has slavery and the oppression of women. We have come a long way in getting rid of the latter two. Now if we could just get rid of that remaining one...

[Savonarola]

It has been shown statistically that religion-based rehabilitation programs such as those run by Chuck Colson just don't work. The recidivism rate is exactly the same as people who do not go through any such program.

That's because of all the evil atheists claiming to be Christians so they can evilly get into the program, then evilly continuing to commit evil crime after finishing the program! C'mon, Doug, it's so obvious!

[Dardedar]

Speaking of the harm of religious superstition (but I repeat myself):

10,000 Albinos In Hiding After Killings In East Africa

"NAIROBI, Kenya — The mistaken belief that albino body parts have magical powers has driven thousands of Africa's albinos into hiding, fearful of losing their lives and limbs to unscrupulous dealers who can make up to $75,000 selling a complete dismembered set.

Mary Owido, who lacks pigment that gives color to skin, eyes and hair, says she is only comfortable when at work or at home with her husband and children.

"Wherever I go people start talking about me, saying that my legs and hands can fetch a fortune in Tanzania," said Owido, 36, a mother of six. "This kind of talk scares me. I am afraid of going out alone."

Since 2007, 44 albinos have been killed in Tanzania and 14 others have been slain in Burundi, sparking widespread fear among albinos in East Africa.

At least 10,000 have been displaced or gone into hiding since the killings began, according to a report released this week by the International Federation for the Red Cross and Crescent societies."

[Dardedar]

2. Any impetus to lie about being irreligious (e.g. Are there special programs for believers that lead to early release that non-believers try to enter to shorten their incarceration?)

DOUG
It is possible that parole boards look more favorably on those who claim to be religious. But that is speculation. If this statistic holds up for lifers who have no chance for parole, that would be telling, though. No such data available as far as I know.

DAR
Well, there would only need to be the perception that they look more favorably on those who claim to be religious for there to be an effect. With atheists hugging the near bottom tier on societal acceptance, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch that those who are incarcerated (and a little dumb on the side) would believe this, true or not.

Also, I think these stats just reference those in federal prison which represent a category of 6% of the US prison population. This might have an effect as well (now that is pure speculation).

D.

[kwlyon]

DOUG
Religion has caused criminals and enabled criminals for millennia. Look at the genocide in the Bible. To the extent to which these are actual events, they were justified by "God told us to do it." Hitler appealed to God, and the anti-Semitism to which he appealed was religion-based. Muslim countries treat women in a way that I consider criminal, yet it is, strictly-speaking, not against the law (over there). And it is purely religion-based.

Religion has been part of stable societies, but so has slavery and the oppression of women. We have come a long way in getting rid of the latter two. Now if we could just get rid of that remaining one...

Dawkin's would agree with you. I do not....well not entirely. Religion is the great scapegoat. If it were not for god it would be for country. Religion evolved into society as a means to provide a moral cohesion. In general, the teachings of religions lead to stable societies and are most often identical to secular "morals". That being said, many religions did develop in rather harsh environments and as such they include some teachings that seem extreme to us but were necessary at the time to ensure the well-being of the collective. For example, look at the crimes in islam and christianity that were punishable by death. These often seem ridiculous to us now however in a time and place where being a rebel put the entire society at risk conformity was enforced at all cost. One must also admit that, whatever positive effects religion CAN have on a sociaty, one can not deny that it is all to often used as a means of mass manipulation. This is what I believe you are talking about. Hitler did not do what he did because of religion...but he sure as hell implemented it to undesirable ends. This is why religion is, in a modern sociaty, more trouble than it is worth a million times over. (Did I just agree with you...I forgot)

Kevin