Religious News/Quotes of the Day

[Doug]

Haven't looked to closely at this yet but it looks like a huge resource for those who think Jesus didn't exist at all:

Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ

Doug, we ought to have a short debate at a meeting on whether Jesus existed or not. People would learn a lot, mostly about how weak the evidence is for his existence. If we advertised it could get a lot of attention.

D.

DOUG
I've been looking into this for about a year now. I thought the issue was pretty much defunct ten years ago, but it's enjoyed a resurgence in the relevant scholarship. Yes, let's do, if not a debate, at least a little discussion, or even a panel, about the evidence for an against the historical Jesus. The "for" will need only a few minutes...

[Dardedar]

DAR
Maybe we could find a pastor to defend the "for"? Then it wouldn't look like we are stacking the deck to make the "for" side look bad.

[Doug]

DAR
Maybe we could find a pastor to defend the "for"? Then it wouldn't look like we are stacking the deck to make the "for" side look bad.

DOUG
There would be no shortage of pastors who would repeat the defunct arguments of gospel-writer eyewitnesses, an empty tomb, the transformation of the apostles, and so on. And Tacitus, etc. But those easily-refuted arguments are hardly worth bringing up. As slight as the case for an historical Jesus may be, there are some things that cause trouble for the no-Jesus camp, but these would be points of legitimate scholarship that would be unknown to the average pastor.

[Dardedar]

So we would be stacking the deck if we used a real believer rather than did the job (more competently) ourselves?

Maybe Howe would be up for it. Or that Steve guy you've roasted twice? Why don't you ask them. Or Kyle. Or Briney! Doesn't hurt to ask. Actually it does hurt a little because even that the question is debatable, has to hurt.

D.

[Dardedar]

And now from that sick twisted bunch of knuckleheads that brought us the Creationist museum, we get this:

Bizarre Christian Billboard Compares Atheism To Murder?

A Christian apologetics group “Answers in Genesis” unveils controversial billboards to challenge evolution and atheism.



See the video ad here too.

[Savonarola]

Yes, let's do, if not a debate, at least a little discussion, or even a panel, about the evidence for an against the historical Jesus. The "for" will need only a few minutes...

Can we, for fairness sake, compare the cases for and against the evidence of other people of the same era? What about Augustus or Little Jimmy John of Jerusalem?

[Doug]

So we would be stacking the deck if we used a real believer rather than did the job (more competently) ourselves?

DOUG
Most likely. The pastors who DO know about this scholarship probably would not be inclined to debate, in my experience.

Maybe Howe would be up for it.

DOUG
Howe moved away, last I heard.

Or that Steve guy you've roasted twice? Why don't you ask them.

DOUG
He now lives in Alabama.

Or Kyle.

DOUG
He doesn't know anything. And he would never agree to debate.

Or Briney!

DOUG
He doesn't know anything about this stuff. Plus, he would rather die than even talk to me after I roasted him in our previous debate.

Doesn't hurt to ask. Actually it does hurt a little because even that the question is debatable, has to hurt.
D.

DOUG
Yes, it must hurt them to hear that this is an issue. Feel free to ask around and see if anyone is willing to debate this.

[Dardedar]

[Doug]

PROVO, Utah — Brigham Young University, the Mormon church school where students agree to live a chaste and virtuous life, has lifted its almost three-year policy of blocking access to YouTube.

Administrators lifted the ban on Friday, citing an increasing amount of educational material on the popular video-sharing site, university spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said.

YouTube has its own filters for porn, but BYU added it to the list of Web sites blocked by campus online filters in 2006 because administrators felt there was too much content that could violate the school's strict, conservative standards.

The university's software also blocks pornography, adult content and violence from other sites.

BYU cited limited bandwidth as another factor when explaining the decision. But some professors have since complained that they couldn't access relevant YouTube content in the classroom.
See here.

------Another Report -----------
After much consideration by the administration, BYU students now have access to Dramatic Chipmunk, Laughing Baby, Chocolate Rain and all the rest of YouTube.

YouTube has long been blocked on campus because administrators felt it contained too much questionable content. With the change, however, BYU will tacitly accept the distribution, on its own network, of all the YouTube content it once felt was inappropriate.

It's now up to students to be their own filters. "The users need to be wise and responsible users of technology," said BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins.

The policy was reconsidered in part because of professors who want access to YouTube in classrooms.

"The overwhelming factor was the educational information and materials that are increasingly becoming available," Jenkins said. "I think there's no other way but to provide all of it."
See here.

[Dardedar]

Ha ha, the truth will out. Lot's of anti-mormon stuff on youtube.

[Dardedar]

"There were three kinds of evangelical leaders. The dumb or idealistic ones who really believed. The out-and-out charlatans. And the smart ones who still believed -- sort of -- but knew that the evangelical world was shit, but who couldn't figure out any way to earn as good a living anywhere else. I was turning into one of those, having started out in the idealistic category."

Frank Schaeffer, one of the founders of the modern evangelical movement, in his book "Crazy For God." LINK

[Dardedar]

APPEALS TO FAITH

"By appealing to faith, the Christian wishes to claim the status of
knowledge for beliefs that have not fulfilled the minimum requirements of
knowledge. Indeed, this is the only context in which the appeal to faith
makes sense. But to label as "knowledge" that which has not been rationally
demonstrated is a contradiction, because reason demands that nothing be
designated as knowledge except that which can fulfill its fundamental
requirements.

This is the essence of faith: to consider an idea as true even though it
cannot meet the test of truth, to consider an idea as having a referent in
reality while rejecting the process by which man knows reality. Regardless
of the particular manner in which the Christian characterizes his version
of faith, he cannot escape its irrational bias. His only chance of escape,
to claim that articles of faith can also meet the requirements of reason,
is a dead end, because it renders the concept of faith inapplicable. Faith
is possible only in the case of beliefs that lack rational demonstration.
Since faith must entail belief in the absence of rational demonstration,
all propositions of faith--regardless of their specific content--are
irrational. To believe on faith is to believe in defiance of rational
guidelines, and this is the essence of irrationalism.

Because of this inherent irrationalism, faith can never rescue the
concept of God or the truth of Christian dogmas. Faith is required only for
those beliefs that cannot be defended. Only if one's beliefs are
indefensible--and only if one wishes to retain these beliefs in spite of
their indefensibility--is the appeal to faith necessary. If the Christian
wishes to argue for the rationality of his convictions, he should stick
with presenting evidence and arguments, and he should never appeal to faith
in the first place. The Christian who calls upon faith has already admitted
the irrationality of his belief; he has already conceded that his beliefs
cannot be defended through reason.

If we cannot understand the concept of God, we do not come closer to
understanding it through faith. If the doctrines of Christianity are
absurd, they do not lose their absurdity through faith. If there are no
reasons to believe in Christianity, we do not gain reasons through faith.
Faith does not erase contradictions and absurdities; it merely allows one
to believe in spite of contradictions and absurdities.

The appeal to faith solves nothing and explains nothing; it merely
diverts attention away from the crucial issue of truth. In the final
analysis, not only is the concept of faith irreconcilably opposed to
reason, but it is evasive and quite useless as well."

--George H. Smith,
(Atheism: The Case Against God, Prometheus Books 1989, pp. 123-124)

[Doug]

Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor, FFRF co-presidents, doing their podcast

WASHINGTON — A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center .

Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.

The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.

"It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."

See here.

[Doug]

See here.

"He is learning to live with a right wrist in plaster," Federico Lombardi told AFP, the day after the pope was hospitalised after a fall while on holiday. "The most difficult thing for him is having to give up writing."

...He added that Pope Benedict had told him he was feeling pain but that "some suffering is not a bad thing. What pains him the most is to be no longer able to bless with his right hand and to be no longer able to clasp his hands together" in prayer.

DOUG
I remember seeing a book about prayer a few years ago, and it included a section on the best positions for prayer. Maybe the injured pontiff will invent a few new ones.

[Dardedar]

Kent Hovind, "Dr. Dino" finally loses it all:

Creationist Dinosaur Adventure park being seized over tax fraud

[kwlyon]

DAMMIT! I wanted to go there!

[Doug]

A new study of some 5,800 non-believers reports that contrary to popular conceptions of atheists as crabby misanthropes, they in fact tend to be as happy as their believing brethren, and are in fact more satisfied than people who are uncertain in their beliefs, or in their unbeliefs.

"This new survey reports that confident nonbelievers are more emotionally healthy with respect to 'fence sitters' or religious doubters, shows that 'spirituals' report less satisfaction with their lives than those who identify with other self-labels, and suggests that the common assumption that greater religiosity relates to greater happiness and life satisfaction is not quite true," says a release from the Center for Inquiry (CFI), a leading association of secularists, humanists, agnostics and atheists -- the range of "non-theists" who are often lumped in the polling category of "Nones," or those who reported no religious affiliation.

CFI conducted the Non-Religious Identification Survey (NRIS) with Luke Galen, an associate professor at Grand Valley State University in Grand Rapids, Mich., who has an article on the study, "Profiles of the Godless," in the current edition of CFI's magazine, Free Inquiry.

Read the rest here.

[Doug]

DOUG
I just heard about this book. I'm going to get a copy. Maybe sometime in the next few months I can do a review at a FF meeting. Zuckerman lived in Scandinavia for a year and interviewed 150 Swedes and Danes for this book. Denmark and Sweden have some of the lowest rates of religiosity in the world.


Society without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment
by Phil Zuckerman

"[Zuckerman] tells of a magical land where life expectancy is high and infant mortality low, where wealth is spread and genders live in equity, where happy, fish-fed citizens score high in every quality-of-life index: economic competitiveness, healthcare, environmental protection, lack of corruption, educational investment, technological literacy ... well, you get the idea. Zuckerman (who has explored the sociology of religion in two previous books) has managed to show what nonbelief looks like when it's normal, regular, mainstream, common. And he's gone at least partway to proving the central thesis of his book: Religious faith -- while admittedly widespread -- is not natural or innate to the human condition. Nor is religion a necessary ingredient for a healthy, peaceful, prosperous, and ... deeply good society." - Louis Bayard, Salon.com

"Puts to rest the belief that you need God in order to be a moral person, that irreligious societies are wracked by social problems, and that godless people are unhappy and unmoored. . . . In the case of Scandinavia: God may be dead, but Swedes and Danes lead rich, full lives. Society Without God is a colorful, provocative book that makes an original contribution to debates about atheism and religiosity. Ideal for classroom use, it will get students thinking about their own lives and choices." - Arlene Stein, author of Shameless: Sexual Dissidence in American Culture

[Dardedar]

I'll get this book. We should have a presentation on it too.

D.

[Dardedar]

Fundamentalist Christian Candidate for Tulsa Mayor Makes Creationism Exhibit at Local Zoo Priority # 1

BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS
by Meg White

Anyone who's done their time in journalism school delights in a good lead paragraph, and I'm no exception. In that spirit (and because I simply couldn't say it better myself), I present this gem from Brian Barber, a staff writer at Tulsa World:

Republican mayoral candidate Anna Falling said Tuesday that putting a Christian creationism display in the Tulsa Zoo is No. 1 in importance among city issues that include violent crime, budget woes and bumpy streets.

You read that right. The top of this woman's political platform is one piece of religious indoctrination at a local creationist candidate Anna Falling at Tulsa Zoozoo. Falling insists that this number one priority of hers is necessary so that "streets are safer, budgets are balanced, land use and infrastructure are determined wisely for all of Tulsa so that we all have a shot at the 'pursuit of happiness.'"

Yes, I'm sure a plaque questioning evolution at the Tulsa Zoo will solve the pothole problem.

Now, in a state with one senator who advocates the death penalty for law-abiding doctors who happen to provide abortions and another who calls climate change the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," Falling's assertions may not be terribly shocking."

The rest...