PZ Myers and the Magic Cracker

[Dardedar]

DAR
It's a matter of taste. It's an opinion we may wildly disagree on and one I may disagree with myself depending on the day of the week. The overt and obnoxious charlatans like Benny Hinn I say go for any time day or night. Same with the "Living Water" types that stand on chairs and yell at people as they walk by on Dickson street. Same with Gary "Moses" (depending on which is the most advantageous strategy with that clown, you don't want to give him what he wants).

But the rank and file catholics I quite like. They are at least organized and sophisticated in their superstition. And except for some fundie branches they are usually quite polite and even amenable to considering skepticism. The vast majority of American catholics are already quite skeptical of vast swathes of their own religion (i.e. birth control etc.). They have every right to play make believe with their crackers and I think it would be terribly rude to terrorize them by kidnapping one.

Years ago someone was bugging me to contact a fellow (a musician I knew) and make a big todo about the fact that he was practicing dowsing. He wanted me to tell him about our $1,000 reward offer. I told this person to inform him himself and that he could contact me if he was interested in having his belief in dowsing tested and winning the prize. I wasn't going to call him up and rub it in his face. This was a close call because sometimes we will tell dowsers directly about our challenge if they are doing a public display for instance.

We are already freethinker goats in a world full of sheep with a tendency toward arrogance. At least I am. After doing this for quite some time I have learned it is important to walk softly and temper it a bit at times. Other times, turn up the burners and roast'em. It's a matter of taste.

D.

[The Physicist]

We are already freethinker goats in a world full of sheep with a tendency toward arrogance. At least I am. After doing this for quite some time I have learned it is important to walk softly and temper it a bit at times. Other times, turn up the burners and roast'em. It's a matter of taste.

I suppose I should be careful so as not to come off as too much of a hypocrite. You see, I DO believe there are times when it is quite called for to be LOUD in response to the stupidity of the world around us. Would it make since if I told you that I would have no problem with that young man from Florida kidnapping a host and pissing on it...oh...well...the lord has shown me that this is too extreme:)...let us not use human urine, but rather that of a cow:)....okay...so he and a group of people form Florida university get together and desecrate the host to make a point. This would be a loud and VERY unkind response however, given the details of the situation it may or may not be warranted.

I think the young man should (if he has not already) apologize and explain that he did not mean any harm. I think he actually did just this and if this is the case and they are STILL trying to have the university expel him then yes, the gloves should come off for sure. Even if he HASN'T apologized, the fact that they are trying to expel him is WAY OVER THE LINE and warrants some extreme response. Frankly the catholic churches behavior regarding the matter is all to remnant of the Islamic reaction over the Muhammad cartoon or that damn teddy bear. And just as there are now teddy bears all over the free world named Muhammad...there will be people desecrating their Eucharist. They have gotten exactly what they have asked for.

This is the natural order of things. I, for one, would rather not take part in this behavior but rather speak out in hopes that my words might get through to some of them whereas such behavior might just put them off. However I was wrong to foist this stance on everyone else. This was mighty christian of me and I apologize. I would say this, however, if one were to engage in such retaliatory activity, do make sure your motives are to send home a point, and not because it is fun. Fun is fun...but these are serious issues in our society today and we must be careful that our actions are not counter productive.

--Kevin

[Dardedar]

DAR
One could always ask: WWDD

What would Dawkins do?

I think he almost always gets these situations right. Shows mercy but doesn't hold back when necessary. Always smart and classy.

[Doug]

The big point I wish to make is that we are just here to show them the door, they must decide to walk through it...you must not try to shove the red pill down their thoughts.--Kevin

DOUG
And sometimes we must be a LITTLE rude in order to get them to see the door. Examining an unconsecrated cracker would make no dents in their beliefs. Examing one that has already been said to have been turned into Jesus might cause some people to see the door. The priests would never give up a Jesus cracker willingly. The only way to get this accomplished is to take one after the priest has allegedly done his magic. It's not pretty, but it is sometimes the only way.

I would have just done some sleight of hand and taken it surreptitiously.

[Dardedar]

DAR
Two ways out of this for them. Isn't it the case that no magic occurs to the cracker until blessed by the priest? Also I have heard that it doesn't actually turn into Jesus until it's in your mouth.

If it doesn't pass that test they will just move the goal posts and say it doesn't turn into Jesus until it hits your colon. It's the way they have always operated.

D.

[Doug]

DAR
Two ways out of this for them. Isn't it the case that no magic occurs to the cracker until blessed by the priest? Also I have heard that it doesn't actually turn into Jesus until it's in your mouth.

DOUG
Yes, that's why you can't just sneak them out of the kitchen. You have to line up in front of the priest and get it directly from him. In some churches, he puts it on your tongue. In some churches, it is allowed, in some cases, to hand it to the person in his or her hand, which makes it easier to sneak it out.

If it doesn't pass that test they will just move the goal posts and say it doesn't turn into Jesus until it hits your colon. It's the way they have always operated. D.

DOUG
Maybe. But they have already said that it changes in the mouth, on the tongue. But they'd most likely say that it's essence has changed and that its physical appearance does not. (Whatever that means.) They already say something like that already.