PZ Myers and the Magic Cracker

[RobertMadewell]

This last month PZ Myers caused a stir when he criticized the doctrine of transubstantiation and promised to desecrate a eucharist. Heres the links below.

It's a Frackin Cracker
Now I've got Bill Donohue's attention
Fresh crackers!
Fight back against Bill Donohue!
Can this possibly get more insane?
I get email — special cracker edition!
Mail dump (Note the first letter in this post.)
Stop it NOW, please
“unrepentant science heathen”
The cost of delusional derangements
Me and my cyberpistol
An evil atheist and a Catholic priest have a conversation…
<rolls eyes> It's a cracker, people
Not again...
Who the heck is Greg Moore and why does he keep threatening me?
Priorities
The Great Desecration
Write to UCF
I get email

[Nisemono]

Ok... I have to interrupt at this point...

I figure that this would be a great time to mention the upcoming schedule of PZ Myers. Specifically, the weekend of October 10-12. When he is going to be in Springfield, Missouri!

**swoon**

The man is pure genius, witty, stands by his beliefs, and is coming to speak at my alma mater.

Not only that, we also have dibs on Richard Carrier for the same weekend. **swoons again**

I will be living in Fayetteville beginning in mid August, but will certainly be making the trip back to Springfield for this weekend. It is only about two hours away. I can fit four guests in my car, and possibly even find beds/couches for said guests. My brother is the Captain of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on campus, so I better have some sway! =)

PZ Myers. In Springfield. And Richard Carrier.

**swoons again**

Ok... I am done... Continue with your regular programming...

[JamesH]

Nisemono,

I just read throught the postings that Mike had posted. Even during that early time of my life when I considered myself a Christian (Presbyterian) and I took comunion and they would say the part about "this is the body of Christ broken for you" I never believed it to be literal! I always knew it was just bread-Presbyterians use bread not crackers. Althought on special occations they did use some bread that was more like crutons. I hate crutons! I always ask to have them removed from my salad in a restaurant.

After reading those postings by PZ Myers I would love to hear him speak. The really cool thing is my wife and I do live in Springfield.

Do you have more information on his schedule? Or where he is speaking? Maybe we could get several of the Fayettville Freethinkers to come up to "Bible Central"!

[Nisemono]

James,

It is actually my friends and I who are bringing him down to Springfield. My friend JT asked Dr. Myers to come, and he responded back with a positive answer. He basically just said that he needed a bed and a shower, if we footed the plane ticket. WoOt!

We are going to have him speak at Missouri State, so hopefully we will be able to get the student association there to pay for the plane ticket. If not, I make a mean vegan cupcake, and we have raised hundreds of dollars off them before. =P

We are waiting back on responses from several other atheist speakers before we plan out everything. Chances are that we will have them both (Myers and Carrier) speak on Saturday.

-Amber
tehjuggernauts.blogspot.com

[RobertMadewell]

Nisemono,

I'd love to meet PZ. So would Judy. My bro lives in Springfeild, so we got a place to stay. All I need to know is when and where and if I'm invited and how much $$$, etc. I'd like to meet Richard Carrier too. Wow! That's quite a line up!

(Last month I met Brian Dunning! <sings>Na Na Na Na Na!</sings>)

[Nisemono]

We have to wait for the first day of school, August 25th, to apply for funding for the ticket, and to reserve an auditorium. As soon as that is set, we will be heavily publicizing the speaker. =D

[Doug]

Chances are that we will have them both (Myers and Carrier) speak on Saturday.

DOUG
I was on a panel on miracles with Richard Carrier, Joe Nickel, and Robert M. Price. Nickel gave the investigative side of the matter, Price gave the theological view, Carrier gave the historian's perspective, and I gave the philosophical take on it. This was in New Jersey a few years ago.

If you see Carrier, tell him I said hello. I correspond with him on a regular basis.

[Dardedar]

DAR
Fayetteville Freethinker roadtrip?

[Savonarola]

DAR
Fayetteville Freethinker roadtrip?

That's what I was thinking.

[JamesH]

All,

If you plan a road trip up to Springfield, Sherry and I would like to host a party at our house after hearing from PZ Myers.

I have contacted Amber and some of her friends, Sherry and I have offered to help with getting PZ to Springfield and any other way we can help. It would be nice to get something like that in Springfield and I hope that my house does not get burned down in the process since this is such a conservative community.

[JamesH]

All,

We are working on getting Dr. Myers to Springfield the weekend of October 10-11-12th. Unfortunately for Sherry and I we will not be in Springfield that weekend. That is the same weekend as the FFRF convention in Chicago and it has worked out that I will be there that week so Sherry is meeting me so we can go to the convention. Our first.

After reading some of Dr. Myers stuff I am very torn between going to Chicago or staying here. I do not know all of the particulars for Dr. Myers visit but I will pass this on as it becomes available.

Sorry we missed the meeting today. Sherry had to work and I was working on the house.

[Nisemono]

Skeptics
Oct. 11th at 1:00pm in the PSU Theater on the Missouri State campus.

901 S. National
Springfield, Mo

Biologist PZ Myers and author Richard Carrier will speak about how their related fields apply to Christianity and faith in general.
PZ Myers:

Paul Zachary "PZ" Myers is a Biology professor at the University of Minnesota Morris and the author of the science blog Pharyngula. He is currently an associate professor of biology at UMM, works with zebrafish in the field of evolutionary developmental biology (evo-devo), and also cultivates an interest in cephalopods. He is a public critic of intelligent design and of the creationist movement in general, and is an activist in the American creation-evolution controversy.

Richard Carrier:

Richard Carrier is a published Historian and philosopher. He is the author of "Sense and Goodness Without God," though he is best known for his writings on Internet Infidels (otherwise known as the Secular Web), where he served as Editor-in-Chief for several years. He is a noted advocate of metaphysical naturalism. He has published many articles in books, journals, and magazines, and also features on the documentary film "The God Who Wasn't There" where he is interviewed about his doubts on the historicity of Jesus.

Besides his work in print, as a contributor to the Secular Web (one of the main web sites for skeptics on the internet) Richard Carrier has composed research articles on subjects ranging from the origins of Christianity to elements of naturalist and atheist philosophy. He has also engaged in several formal debates, both online and in public, defending subjects as diverse as naturalism as a worldview and natural explanations of early Christian resurrection accounts.

[Savonarola]

Oct. 11th at 1:00pm in the PSU Theater on the Missouri State campus.

I would give just about anything other than my job to see this.

Keeping my job requires that I be in Little Rock on the 11th.

The descriptor "disappointed" does not do this feeling justice.

Nisemono (and James and Sherry), thank you for making this happen, even if I can't be there.

[JamesH]

I wish we were going to be in town but like I said in an earlier post Sherry and I have the chance to go to the FFRF convention in Chicago so we will not be in town. Dr. Myers and Richard Carrier sound like they would be wounderful to hear. Well maybe next time.

[RobertMadewell]

PZ Myers has an anoucement up on his blog. http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... ssouri.php

[JamesH]

All,

I have been told that I will get a DVD copy of these lectures and I will share them at a meeting in the future.

[Jae Baeli]

I read the Frackin' Cracker link.

I was going to respond, as I do quite frequently, with, "Christ on a cracker!" but that would be apropos in a rather twisted way...i guess it would be "Christ *IN* a cracker!"

Here's what i think we should do: spread the word throughout all the freethinking/infidel/atheist KINGDOM---find a catholic church, and STEAL A CRACKER!! then call and let them know. If we inundate them, maybe the absurdity will crescendo until reason simply must take over. Though i won't hold my breath. in the meantime, doing it for the sake of doing it---wouldn't that be great fun????

[The Physicist]

Here's what i think we should do: spread the word throughout all the freethinking/infidel/atheist KINGDOM---find a catholic church, and STEAL A CRACKER!! then call and let them know. If we inundate them, maybe the absurdity will crescendo until reason simply must take over. Though i won't hold my breath. in the meantime, doing it for the sake of doing it---wouldn't that be great fun????

As irrational as the belief in transubstantiation is, it remains a belief that is dear to many Catholics. Lots of hype has begun over this cracker business and frankly I am embarrassed by both sides. That young man who started all of this in Florida was an ex-catholic...and he knew what he was doing and that it would be construed as disrespectful. He knew better. Shame on him. Just because you don't accept the sacred aspect of a religious practice does not give you the MORAL right to trample on it. As for the woman who freaked out over his actions, just because someone is not showing your beliefs what you deem to be proper respect does not mean it is in your best interest to make a scene. She knew what she was doing as well...she was creating a negative scene to gain attention and did not care in the least that in the process she was making an ass out of her church. This was a truly pathetic display of inept moral character. However, in her defense, at least SHE didn't go on national tv and equate the occurrence as KIDNAPPING CHRIST essentially daring everyone in the damn free world to desecrate her sacrament.

Here is my point. PZ is wrong. We should show them more respect than they show us. Mock them, for this is what they deserve. However "infiltrating" their service to "steal" a jesus wafer and in so doing desecrating their sacrament is morally reprehensible. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard.

--kevin

[Doug]

However "infiltrating" their service to "steal" a jesus wafer and in so doing desecrating their sacrament is morally reprehensible. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard.--kevin

DOUG
How about this scenario: Imagine that a religious sect has started around a person, Rev. Healer, who claims to be able to heal people by praying for them. Rev. Healer routinely has revival meetings around the country, and he is raking in tens of millions of dollars each year via donations from the faithful.



One of the things that happens at his revival meetings is that people in wheelchairs are brought up on stage one at a time. Rev. Healer shouts at the person in the wheelchair to walk, and the person gets up and walks. This happens with two or three people per revival meeting. The crowd always goes wild over the amazing healing.

Mrs. Skeptic goes to the meetings to see what is going on, and she discovers that the people in the wheelchairs were always able to walk. They just have trouble walking, so as they come in, shuffling slowly or teetering as they come in, they are whisked into wheelchairs and told that they will be given a special place up front where they will "see everything up close." When the revival meeting begins, the person is wheeled onto the stage and told to walk. Puzzled, the individual gets up and is whisked away before he or she can say anything. Mrs. Skeptic makes this discovery and documents it on film.

Should Mrs. Skeptic blow the whistle on Rev. Healer? I would say that she should. But then how is this different from the cracker investigation, except that in the case of the priest, the priest may well be fooled by the dogma himself. In each case, shouldn't we make an effort to bring the truth to light?

[The Physicist]

In each case, shouldn't we make an effort to bring the truth to light?

Absolutely. However walking on stage and pushing a handicapped person to the floor to make the point would be wildly inappropriate.
This behavior would not win any respect nor consideration from a crowd that already thinks of us as the devil. You should speak out against it. But you must keep in mind that these people are not inherently stupid...well most of them anyways. They are fooled because they WANT to be fooled. They are paying for a product that, very often, is detrimental to their health. This is a freedom we have in this country...the freedom to make poor personal decisions.

I'm not even going to bother pointing out the fact that the catholic church is a very different fish from your run of the mill televangelist. They have very different evils associated with them...however they are selling the same thing in the end. The big point I wish to make is that we are just here to show them the door, they must decide to walk through it...you must not try to shove the red pill down their thoughts.

--Kevin