Supreme Court Ok's Voter ID

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Uncle Galt

Supreme Court Ok's Voter ID

Post by Uncle Galt »

nytimes link

You dims will have to win the election without your normal fraudulent /dead voters. Just think no JFK if this law was in effect in 1960. Boy with this and Barry Hussein Obama's Rev. Hate- no wonder you guys are so bitter all the time.

The Supreme Court comes through with a bit of sanity- best quote:
"But Brian C. Bosma, who was speaker of the Indiana House when the law was enacted and is now the House’s Republican leader, dismissed the Democrats’ complaints. “This is only a burden for those who want to vote more than once,” Mr. Bosma said in a telephone interview from Indianapolis. “It protects everyone.”
Supreme Court Upholds Voter Identification Law in Indiana

By DAVID STOUT
Published: April 29, 2008
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court upheld Indiana’s voter-identification law on Monday, declaring that a requirement to produce photo identification is not unconstitutional and that the state has a “valid interest” in improving election procedures as well as deterring fraud.

Related
Justices Indicate They May Uphold Voter ID Rules (January 10, 2008)

Text of the Opinion

In a 6-to-3 ruling in one of the most awaited election-law cases in years, the court rejected arguments that Indiana’s law imposes unjustified burdens on people who are old, poor or members of minority groups and less likely to have driver’s licenses or other acceptable forms of identification. Because Indiana’s law is considered the strictest in the country, similar laws in the other 20 or so states that have photo-identification rules would appear to have a good chance of surviving scrutiny.

The ruling, coming just eight days before the Indiana primary and at the height of a presidential election campaign, upheld rulings by a Federal District Court and the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, which had thrown out challenges to the 2005 law.

Justice John Paul Stevens, who announced the judgment of the court and wrote an opinion in which Chief John G. Roberts Jr. and Anthony M. Kennedy joined, alluded to — and brushed aside — complaints that the law benefits Republicans and works against Democrats, whose ranks are more likely to include poor people or those in minority groups.

The justifications for the law “should not be disregarded simply because partisan interests may have provided one motivation for the votes of individual legislators,” Justice Stevens wrote.

Justice Stevens and the two court members who joined him found that the Democrats and civil rights groups who attacked the law, seeking a declaration that it was unconstitutional on its face, had failed to meet the heavy burden required for such a “facial challenge” to prevail.

Perhaps, they suggested, the outcome could be different in another voter-rights case, one in which a plaintiff could show that his or her rights had been violated. That was the approach suggested by the Bush administration, whose solicitor general, Paul D. Clement, urged the court to wait for a lawsuit brought by someone was actually barred by the statute from casting a ballot.

Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. concurred in the judgment of the court, but went further in rejecting the plaintiffs’ challenge. In an opinion by Justice Scalia, the three justices said, “The law should be upheld because its overall burden is minimal and justified.”

Indiana’s law allows voters who lack photo identification to cast a provisional ballot, then appear at their county courthouse within 10 days to show identification. Chief Justice Roberts, who grew up in Indiana, said during the argument of the case in January that such requirements are not onerous. The law also makes provisions for people in nursing homes.

Justices David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer dissented. Justice Souter, in an opinion joined by Justice Ginsburg, said the Indiana law, which calls for a government-issued photo identification, like a driver’s license or passport, “threatens to impose nontrivial burdens on the voting rights of tens of thousands of the state’s citizens.”

Some Democrats have complained that those who succeeded in passing the law and fought on its behalf were citing problems that did not exist, because prosecutions for impersonating a registered voter are exceedingly rare, or non-existent. The real motivation of those behind the law was to hamper Democrats, those foes of the law have argued.

“This decision is a body blow to what America stands for — equal access to the polls,” said Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, who leads the Democrats’ Senate election efforts. Other Democrats offered similar expressions of dismay. Ken Falk, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana, which brought the case, told The Associated Press that he was “extremely disappointed.”

But Brian C. Bosma, who was speaker of the Indiana House when the law was enacted and is now the House’s Republican leader, dismissed the Democrats’ complaints. “This is only a burden for those who want to vote more than once,” Mr. Bosma said in a telephone interview from Indianapolis. “It protects everyone.”

When the case was argued before the Supreme Court in January, there was considerable back-and-forth over how much of a burden the Indiana law could be in an age when an overwhelming majority of people old enough to vote also possess a driver’s license or other form of photo identification.

There was also discussion over how much voter fraud really exists, with some suggestions that the reason it has apparently never been prosecuted in Indiana is because those who commit fraud are good at it.

But, as Justice Stevens noted, there have been flagrant examples of voter fraud in American history. He cited the 1868 New York City elections, in which a local tough who worked for Tammany’s William (Boss) Tweed explained why he liked voters to have whiskers: “When you’ve voted ’em with their whiskers on, you take ’em to a barber and scrape off the chin fringe. Then you vote ’em again with the side lilacs and a mustache. Then to a barber again, off comes the sides and you vote ’em a third time with the mustache. If that ain’t enough and the box can stand a few more ballots, clean off the mustache and vote ’em plain face.”

In 2004, Justice Stevens noted in a footnote, the hotly contested gubernatorial election in Washington State produced an investigation that turned up 19 “ghost voters” and at least one confirmed instance of voter fraud. And while Justice Stevens did not mention the elections in the career of Lyndon B. Johnson, biographers of the late president have suggested that he won at least one election in Texas in the 1940’s through ballot box-stuffing — and lost at least one the same way.

On the other hand, there is no dispute that some voting laws enacted decades ago, especially in the South, were not intended to prevent fraud but rather to keep blacks from voting.

Indiana usually goes Republican in presidential elections. Republicans control the State Senate, while Democrats hold a narrow advantage in the State House. The governor, Mitch Daniels, is a Republican. When the 2005 law was passed, Republicans controlled both houses and were unanimously behind the law — while Democrats were unanimously opposed.

Lawyers who challenged the case cited the experience of one would-be Indiana voter, Valerie Williams, who was turned away from the polling place in November 2006 by officials who told her that a telephone bill, a Social Security letter with her address and an expired driver’s license were no longer sufficient.

“Of course, I threw a fit,” she said in a January interview with The New York Times, recalling how she cast a provisional ballot which was never counted. Ms. Williams, in her early 60’s, is black — and is a Republican.

LaWood

Post by LaWood »

Challenge for the Court:

What was the evidence presented of voter fraud via no verifiable ID?

Answer: None.

But when it's all wingnut faith-based why should evidence of wrong doing matter?

Does a George Bush approved SCOTUS surprise anyone with this decision?
Not me.

However there is another issue that will automatically arise. In the 1960s poll taxes (pay for right to vote) were ruled unconstitutional.
If the elderly and poor who normally don't have drivers licenses must pay for an ID in order to exercise the right to vote some government entity should be paying the cost of the voter ID.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wait until REAL ID hits you in the ass Galt. You're gonna love this piece of Bushit. It will drive up the cost of drivers licenses by 150% and the long lines will simply amaze you. Coming to a court house in your neighborhood soon!
.
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Post by Dardedar »

DAR
When the populace is allowed to vote, republicans lose. Thus they pursue the strategy of vote suppression.

***
"And the Great Voter purge begins….

The Supreme Court ruled Monday that states can require voters to produce photo identification without violating their constitutional rights, validating Republican-inspired voter ID laws. n a splintered 6-3 ruling, the court upheld Indiana’s strict photo ID requirement, which Democrats and civil rights groups said would deter poor, older and minority voters from casting ballots. Its backers said it was needed to deter fraud.

...

The case concerned a state law, passed in 2005, that was backed by Republicans as a way to deter voter fraud. Democrats and civil rights groups opposed the law as unconstitutional and called it a thinly veiled effort to discourage elderly, poor and minority voters — those most likely to lack proper ID and who tend to vote for Democrats.

There is little history in Indiana of either in person voter fraud — of the sort the law was designed to thwart — or voters being inconvenienced by the law’s requirements.

The Dissent by EVANS:

EVANS, Circuit Judge, dissenting. Let’s not beat around the bush: The Indiana voter photo ID law is a not-too-thinly-veiled attempt to discourage election-day turnout by certain folks believed to skew Democratic. We should subject this law to strict scrutiny–or at least, in the wake of Burdick v. Takushi, 504 U.S. 428, (1992), something akin to “strict scrutiny light”–and strike it down as an undue burden on the fundamental right to vote…"

Crooks and Liars
LaWood

Post by LaWood »

Whether Indiana's voter ID law unconstitutionally burdens the right to vote absent any evidence of voter fraud. DECIDED
Indiana has adopted the most onerous voter ID law in the nation, which has the effect of disenfranchising thousands of registered voters in the state who do not have, and, in many instances, cannot obtain the limited identification that Indiana will accept for voting. Although the state has defended the law as a means of deterring voter impersonation at the polls, there is no evidence of such fraud in Indiana, and it is already prohibited by various criminal statutes. The ACLU represents a group of plaintiffs who have challenged the law as an unconstitutional burden on the right to vote.

http://www.aclu.org/scotus/2007term/325 ... 71106.html
LaWood

Post by LaWood »

It occurred to me that come Jan 20, 09 there will be a Democratic Prez,
and an overwhelming Demo majority in both houses of Congress. This ruling can be legislated away. It's been done before.
Uncle Galt

That liberal math

Post by Uncle Galt »

Hi Larry- the actual count in the Senate is 51-49- not hardly a substantial majority.

I have voted in Arkansas for many years and everyone is always asked for and presents their drivers' license- how have we survived the injustice?
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Re: That liberal math

Post by Doug »

Uncle Galt wrote:Hi Larry- the actual count in the Senate is 51-49- not hardly a substantial majority.

I have voted in Arkansas for many years and everyone is always asked for and presents their drivers' license- how have we survived the injustice?
DOUG
Don't worry. Your crooked GOP leaders will find ways to purge voter rolls of tens of thousands of Democrats so that they can't vote in the fall. They've been doing this for the last two presidential elections in large numbers, but since the Republicans were in power most of that time, there were no significant investigations into it.

And the crooked voting machines that only make mistakes in favor of the Republicans? No significant investigation there either.

But despite this vote rigging by the GOP, what law do they pass? What have they been able to convice their stupid rank and file true believers to be afraid of? Alleged voter impersonation, of which they cannot provide evidence of its existence. Typical.

(Or maybe Galt really is smart enough to know that this voter impersonation stuff is just a bunch of bullshit and he's just repeating it here to see if we will believe it. Is he that smart?)
Uncle Galt

I hope Doug is healthy

Post by Uncle Galt »

The hate, shrillness and outrage expressed by Doug towards me is something I do enjoy to a point, BUT, Doug: I hope that your physical condition will allow you to safely continue on this forum with me around. For the sake of your wife and kids- please try to manage your stress and please eat right. It looks like you could benefit from some exercise. Please consult your Doctor first though.

As always, your friendly Uncle Galt does indeed care for you.
Please take it easy big fellow.

Your pal,
Uncle Galt
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Re: I hope Doug is healthy

Post by Dardedar »

Uncle Galt wrote:The hate, shrillness and outrage expressed by Doug towards me...

Your pal,
Uncle Galt
DAR
What a breathtaking hypocrite.

Could you do the favor of pointing out an example of "hate, shrillness and outrage expressed toward you" in the post from Doug that you are responding to?

Thanks in advance.

I think "Galt", (who unlike Doug, hides behind a phony name) somehow has the bizarre idea that if he has a post filled hate shrillness, outrage and insults (see above for an example) it is somehow magically countered by the addition of a childish sarcastic "pal, uncle" tagged on the end.

I have asked you several questions in posts. Why do you continually run from them? Why are you such a coward?

D.
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Re: I hope Doug is healthy

Post by Doug »

Uncle Galt wrote:The hate, shrillness and outrage expressed by Doug towards me is something I do enjoy to a point, BUT, Doug: I hope that your physical condition will allow you to safely continue on this forum with me around. For the sake of your wife and kids- please try to manage your stress and please eat right. It looks like you could benefit from some exercise. Please consult your Doctor first though.

As always, your friendly Uncle Galt does indeed care for you.
Please take it easy big fellow.

Your pal,
Uncle Galt
DOUG
Don't worry. I plan to be around long enough to see you realize what good government is. Maybe Bush has been around so long you forgot how destructive and anti-American he is.

Maybe when Hillary or Obama get in you'll stop hating the planet, hating freedom, and start going back to good American values.
Uncle Galt

If you think Obama will make your life better

Post by Uncle Galt »

Doug- if you think Hillary or Obama will make any difference in your life, you are a sad case.

Do take care,

Your kind Uncle Galt.
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Re: If you think Obama will make your life better

Post by Savonarola »

Uncle Galt wrote:Doug- if you think Hillary or Obama will make any difference in your life, you are a sad case.
Oh look, another evidence-laden post from Galt! Hooray! :roll:
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Re: If you think Obama will make your life better

Post by Dardedar »

Uncle Galt wrote:Doug- if you think a [insert democrat] will make any difference in your life, you are a... [insult].
DAR
I think I will take a few moments to open [another] can of whoop ass on Galt.

If there is any question that a president can make a difference in the life of a person living in America, all one needs to do is look at the historical record. This information has been posted many times in this forum so there is no excuse for such ignorance.

I have money in the stockmarket. The stock market consistently does better under a democratic president. I posted extensive documentation of this only two months ago:

Market Performance: Clinton v. Bush

A visual clue for those who need pictures:

Image

But that is just two presidents compared. Consider:

***
"Historically, Democrats are much better for the stock market than Republicans. Slate magazine ran the numbers and found that since 1900, Democratic presidents have produced a 12.3 percent annual total return on the S&P 500, but Republicans only an 8 percent return. In 2000, the Stock Trader's Almanac,… came up with nearly the same numbers (13.4 percent versus 8.1 percent) by measuring Dow price appreciation.
Nor does having a Republican Congress help the market. A Democratic Senate showed returns of 10.5 percent (versus 9.4 percent for a GOP upper chamber), and a Democratic House returned 10.9 percent versus 8.1 percent for the Republicans.

Of course the stock market is not the whole economy but real GDP growth follows the same pattern. Since 1930 (the first year decent data is available), GDP growth was 5.4 percent for Democratic presidents and 1.6 percent for Republicans."
Excerpted from: Slate

NEXT:

High fiscal deficits increase my taxes and the debt which I and my children and grandchildren will be saddled with. Interest alone on the debt will soon be the third largest item on the budget. About 19% goes to pay interest on the $9.3 trillion debt [$5.6 net]. The record shows that Democrats are consistently much more fiscally responsible. This is good for the country and good for me. Consider:

"Republicans have traditionally identified themselves as the party of fiscal discipline, but over the last three-quarters of a century, Republican administrations have increased federal debt at a rate more than four times faster than have Democrats." --ibid

NEXT:

Strong job creation makes for a robust economy which effects everyone. The record couldn't be more clear.

"In the last fifty years, there have been ten Presidents--five Democrats and five Republicans--and the Democrats place first, second, third, fourth and fifth [in new job creation].... the chance of that occurring randomly is 1 in 252, which just happens to be almost the exact odds of being dealt a straight in a game of five-card stud."
--James Carville, We're Right, They're Wrong, pg. 13

NEXT:

Overall economic growth:

"During the period from Herbert Hoover's presidency onward, the American economy (GDP) has grown nearly three times as fast under Democrats as Republicans. (The annual mean growth in real GDP under Republican Presidents has been 1.8 percent; under Democrats, 5.1 percent.)"

NEXT:
Bush's idiotic policies have decimated the value of the dollar. When I travel to Europe, Canada etc., my buying power has effectively been cut in half.

SUMMARY:

According to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis:

* Personal income grew 20% faster under Democratic Administrations.
* Employment averaged 30% more under Democratic Administrations.

... I'm not going to keep saying under Democratic Administrations unless the Republicans win a category...

* Unemployment was 30% less (makes sense).
* GDP grew 33% more from 1962 on (see lag factors too!)
* GDP growth since 1930 was a stunning 5.4% vs 1.6%
* Inflation was 15% less, 27% less with lag factors.
* Growth in Federal spending (now hold onto your hat) 7% under Democrats, 7.5% under Republicans through 2001 (Bush will blow this number up a mile).
* Growth in Defense spending 8.3% Dems, 10% Reps
* Rise in Federal employees -- Republicans hired 310,000 new ones vs. Dems just 59,000.
* Average annual budget deficit 1962-2001: Dems $36B, Reps $190B (another number Bush will increase substantially)
* Total debt increase 1962-2001: Dems $720B, Reps $6.3T (again, Bush will lead you to the $7T promised land -- 10x what the Dems have done!)
* Average annual stock market returns since since 1900: Dems 12%, Reps 8%

* With a Democratic Senate: 10.5%
* With a Republican Senate: 9.4%
* With a Democratic House: 10.9%
* With a Republican House: 8.1%
--ibid

DAR
Conclusion:

If you think a [insert democrat v. republican] will NOT make any difference in your life, you are profoundly ignorant of the American historical record.

D.
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“It's everyone's fault but theirs. 'The terrorists', domestic enemies, cultural declension, the French, perhaps tomorrow the decline of reading, the end of corporal punishment in the schools, permissive parenting, bad posture, rock 'n roll, space aliens. The administration is choking on its own lies and evasions. And we have to bail them out because the ship of state is our ship.” -- Josh Marshall, TomPaine.com
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Re: If you think Obama will make your life better

Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote:If there is any question that a president can make a difference in the life of a person living in America, all one needs to do is look at the historical record.
DOUG
Good luck with getting Galt to see anything. He's blinded by his hatred of life, love, and freedom. I think that's why the GOP loves having Bush take away our freedoms and having the government illegally spy on us, why they hate the idea of allowing gays to marry, and why they love war. Peace, love and freedom are antithetical to everything Galt stands for.

Galt and the GOP are especially afraid of Hillary because her husband presided over two terms of peace, freedom, and prosperity. The thought that such a time could again come to our country scares the hell out of Galt.
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Post by Tony »

Just to go back to the origin of this thread: Demanding ID is scary. I hope this is not a trend in voter disenfranchisement. Anything that discourages the poor, or blocks their ability to vote pisses me off! This is big.
Praise Jesus and pass the ammo.
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Post by Dardedar »

GOP objects to bill allowing recounts

By BEN ADLER | 4/25/08 4:50 AM

Voting rights activists who hoped the federal government would help local governments pay for paper trails and audits for electronic voting machines have gone from elation to frustration as they watched Republicans who supported such a proposal in committee vote against bringing it to the House floor.

The result: The elections in November will likely be marred by the same accusations of fraud and error involving voting machines that arose in the aftermath of the 2004 presidential race.

When New Jersey Democratic Rep. Rush Holt’s Emergency Assistance for Secure Elections Act came up for a vote in the House Administration Committee on April 2, the Republicans on the committee gave it their unanimous support. But two weeks later, those same Republican members voted against moving the bill to the House floor. It would have taken a two-thirds vote to push the bill to the floor; with most House Republicans opposed, the bill didn’t make it that far.

In May 2003, Holt proposed the Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act. That bill would have mandated a paper trail for voting machines so that voters could verify their vote and a recount could be performed, if necessary. The measure faced conservative objections on states’ rights grounds and failed to make much headway.

So Holt introduced his new bill in January. Under the Emergency Assistance for Secure Elections Act, the federal government would help localities switch to paper ballots or attach printers to their electronic voting machines in time for the November elections. To overcome states’ rights objections, Holt crafted the bill as an opt-in: Nobody would be required to switch technologies or conduct audits, but federal funding would be available to offset costs for those who did.

The rest
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Post by Barbara Fitzpatrick »

Of course it's voter suppression. And it's aimed at poor folks, who tend to be "of color" and Dems. It's going to shoot down "special needs" people, too, since those who can't drive don't tend to have driver's licenses. As for saying a person can use a passport if he/she doesn't have a driver's license - total B.S. The folks who don't drive for financial reasons sure as heck don't go out of the country. And have you tried to get a passport lately? Give me a break. The "justices" have been monied too long to make rational decisions about the poor, to give the "two" the benefit of the doubt. Roberts, Alito, Scalia, and Thomas know what they are doing. Remember, they all are in favor of "unitary executives" - at least as long as the unitary executive is a Republican.
Barbara Fitzpatrick
LaWood

Post by LaWood »

In typical Republican fashion the SCOTUS ruling accentuates a need that doesn't exist and ignores a need that does.

Consider: How much id is needed to vote absentee?
In Ark none! Just be a registered voter. Lots of room for abuse
there.

I'm not so worried about fixed voting machines. After the elections in 2006 Republicans lost their strangle hold on state houses, thus, making it easier to investigate.

Galt, in case you are holding up against all these words, I have never shown a picture ID to vote. Several times I voted absentee because those votes have a better chance of being counted. Other times I just show my voter registration. Ark does not have a voter photo id law. However two far Right legislators plan to introduce such a law. It will fail. Will not get out of committee.

Try it yourself. Just take your water bill, voter registration card, or any of your utility bills to the polls with you and use them for ID, assuming you vote in Ark.

By the way Galt, thanks for dropping that oxymoron tag you were using,
"Jesus loves you." The fictional John Galt was an atheist.
cheers asshole!
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Post by Dardedar »

DAR
From C & R

Here’s your first case of voter disenfranchisement from Indiana’s new anti-voter law.

Judge Roberts must be so proud:

"About 12 Indiana nuns were turned away Tuesday from a polling place by a fellow bride of Christ because they didn’t have state or federal identification bearing a photograph.

Sister Julie McGuire said she was forced to turn away her fellow sisters at Saint Mary’s Convent in South Bend, across the street from the University of Notre Dame, because they had been told earlier that they would need such an ID to vote.

The nuns, all in their 80s or 90s, didn’t get one but came to the precinct anyway.

“One came down this morning, and she was 98, and she said, ‘I don’t want to go do that,’” Sister McGuire said. Some showed up with outdated passports. None of them drives.

They weren’t given provisional ballots because it would be impossible to get them to a motor vehicle branch and back in the 10-day time frame allotted by the law, Sister McGuire said. “You have to remember that some of these ladies don’t walk well. They’re in wheelchairs or on walkers or electric carts.”

AP
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Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote:Here’s your first case of voter disenfranchisement from Indiana’s new anti-voter law.
DOUG
Apparently many college students were turned away also because university and college student ID's were not sufficient to prove identity, according to the new law.
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