Waterboarding

[Tony]

I write a political column for the Benton County Daily Record, and my last on torture elicited more positive feedback than I have recieved in a long time. And this in Benton County Arkansas! There is something in the air I tell you. Here is what I ran:


So, We Torture


"We do not torture." George Bush, November 7, 2005.


Well, at least all the speculation can finally end, though the answer had seemed clear for a long time. Last week CIA chief Michael Hayden publicly acknowledged that the CIA has used waterboarding in "interrogations". It's official. The United States of America tortures people, as a matter of policy. How does that make you feel? Proud? Patriotic? Safe? Mere words are inadequate to express how I feel about it, but 'loathing' and 'disgust' keep coming to mind. It has been quite the ride with Grand Inquisitor Bush at the helm. Let's review:

Flashback to 2000. A barely articulate good old boy rich kid from Texas loses a Presidential election by more than half a million votes but wins the Presidency in what we like to call a democracy. He bumbles along aimlessly until a tragedy makes him, by mere fact of the act alone, one of the most 'popular' Presidents in history.

September 11, 2001: a handful of very clever, very brutal Al-Qaeda operatives, most of them Saudi, funded and supported by maybe a couple hundred other people, use a few box knives to inventively kill thousands of Americans.

Less than a month later, in order to both capture Osama Bin Laden, the man most responsible for September 11th, and to fix a mess there the United States helped to create in the 1980's, Bush invades Afghanistan. Osama escapes, the mess continues.

Allegedly to combat "evil" and eliminate an immanent threat from weapons of mass destruction, but really to continue a long standing American policy of maintaining stable and friendly regimes in the world's vital oil producing region, Bush invades and occupies Iraq. All this in violation of international law, without a declaration of war from Congress, and against a nation that had not attacked the U.S. No weapons of mass destruction existed. The saga continues, with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and over 30,000 American dead and wounded. "Evil" continues unimpeded in the world. Even the more modest goal of stability is nowhere in sight, and the number of Middle Easterners willing to die trying to kill Americans has jumped from a few hundred to untold tens of thousands.

Stemming from all of this, we got lies and outrages. The Bush Administration overstated the threat from Iraq, going well beyond what even the false evidence stated. It attacked opponents who tried to point this out, leading to the outing of an undercover CIA agent. When Scooter Libby was convicted for lying about this, Bush commuted his sentence after promising to hold people accountable. The Administration continuously connected Iraq to September 11th, still does, even though there was no connection.

Bush set up Guantanamo Bay to hold enemy combatants, in a manner that violated the Geneva Conventions. In violation of international law and common morality, Bush also set up secret CIA prisons around the world to 'disappear' people, and lied about it. The Administration began spying on Americans without warrants and lied about that too. It also held an American citizen, Jose Padilla, in a military prison for three and a half years as an enemy combatant, with no evidence brought against him, without access to lawyers, all of this completely un-Constitutional, and only changed his status and accused him of a crime when it appeared the Supreme Court was about to intervene. Bush still maintains the right to deem any U.S. citizen an 'enemy combatant' Constitution be damned. Now, after Bush constantly said that the United States does not torture, it turns out we do.

All other outrages aside, I just don't get the torture issue. Such things are not supposed to happen in my America. It is embarrassing what we have become. Growing up I learned from my culture, from parents, teachers, religious leaders, and politicians, Americans all, not only that the Constitution was sacred and that nobody was above the law, but also and most definitely, torture is not merely illegal but immoral. I still cherish those apparently naive beliefs. Thus, simply, any person who would advocate or approve torturing-TORTURING- other human beings is my enemy whether he is a religious thug from the Middle East, a religious thug in the White House, or a simple thug next door.

How is it that millions of my fellow citizens can support torture? Because, I think, many of them are cowards. They willingly sacrifice freedoms and moral principles, theirs, mine, and yours, for perceived security. Not me thanks. There are some things that are always unacceptable no matter the justification. And conservatives say lefties have no morals?

Courage people, courage!


You can find some of my other columns, if you're interested, here:

http://www.nwanews.com/bcdr/Editorial/
Tony Red

[Dardedar]

The saga continues, with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and over 30,000 American dead and wounded.

DAR
John McLaughlin states this stronger:

"U.S. soldiers dead: 3,864. Coalition forces dead: 4,169. U.S. military wounded, amputeed, severely injured, injured, mentally ill: 85,015."

That was in November. It's over 90,000 now.

LINK

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

That's a great column Tony - I had that kind of upbringing, too - and I guess I'm naive as well, because I still believe it. The current president is a sociopath. Torture is a spectator sport for him. He thrives off other people's pain and death. If the people who are making money off his presidency weren't in control of the media, this couldn't have happened. Well, they are and it did. I'm hoping for multiple court cases, criminal and civil - domestic and international, once he's out of protective office. Of course, we may have to break the media monopoly before anyone in this country will believe W's invasion and occupation of Iraq wasn't authorized - and it wasn't (authorizing somebody to take the slingshot away if 3rd party investigators determine that there is a slingshot, or if the alledged possessor of said slingshot refuses to let 3rd party investigators investigate is not the same thing as authorizing somebody to beat said alledged possessor of the alledged slingshot to a bloody pulp and burn his house down after throwing out the 3rd party investigators before they could finish investigating).

[Abel]

Barbara- I used to think that you were one of the saner folks on the forum. If you really think GWB is that crazy- YOU're the crazy one. Unlike the 2 crack pots running for the Democrat nomination GWB has had to make tough decisions. Barrack Hussein Obama can pretend that he has no positions on the issues since the Democrats are so unquestioning. If that twerp is elected he'll have to make some decisions- Good luck Barry.

GWB has done that. Freethinkers have never had to make tough choices. GWB has- he is a good man, I would happily waterboard Osama or any of his goons if I thought information would save the freethinkers from death.

You folks enjoy life in your little corner of the world. We have few good choices with these kooks. GWB is a good man. Your radical hatred is sad- Hate never has solved anything.

You people are sad.

Dr. Galt is right.

Abel

[Savonarola]

Unlike the 2 crack pots running for the Democrat nomination GWB has had to make tough decisions.

I find it hard to believe that he has to make any tough decisions. He lets people who he thinks have brains do his decision-making for him.

Barrack Hussein Obama ...

I love how you shameless hacks go out of your way to use his middle name, as if it is meaningful. What is meaningful is that you go out of your way to try to draw parallels in order to further your disgusting fearmongering.

... I would happily waterboard Osama or any of his goons if I thought information would save the freethinkers from death.

And you're a numbskull if you think that torture produces reliable information.

Your radical hatred is sad- Hate never has solved anything.

The only hate I have is for willful ignorance, shameless hackery, and dumbass crackpottery. If you think I hate you and GWB, maybe you need to try a little harder to connect the dots.

You people are sad.

An accusation that doesn't mean much coming from you.

Dr. Galt is right.

And he'd better stay over there. We sure as hell don't want him making his idiotic claims from the left!

[Dardedar]

Barrack Hussein Obama ...

I love how you shameless hacks go out of your way to use his middle name, as if it is meaningful. What is meaningful is that you go out of your way to try to draw parallels in order to further your disgusting fearmongering.

DAR
Here is what Karl Rove thinks of this tactic:

ROVE: Look the “Hussein”…using his middle
name helps Obama, it doesn’t hurt him. So anybody
who wants to help John McCain ought to stop
using…

WALLACE: How do you explain that?

ROVE: ‘Cause I think people look at it and
say, ‘look, that’s one step too far. You’re
trying to leave an implication that he is a
Muslim when I know he’s not.’ And I think you
know, lot of times attacks in politics fail, in
fact they turn into a negative for the person
who’s doing the attacking because people think
it’s gone too far. And this frankly, goes too
far. Now, having ties to Louis Farrakhan and his
anti-Semitic comments, that’s…that’s…you know,
people have a reasonable, that’s a reasonable
question. Do you agree with him, do you renounce
him, do you reject him? But this idea of getting
up there and using the guy’s middle name in order
to imply something about him is…it goes too far."

LINK

So if you want to help Obama, keep it up. Really. It's childish even by rightwing standards.

... I would happily waterboard Osama or any....

SAV
And you're a numbskull if you think that torture produces reliable information.>>

DAR
Exactly right. This just in:

***
"...news that Canada, in their prosecution of alleged terrorist cells, have refiled paperwork that has omitted information obtained during US enhanced interrogation torture sessions. Keith Olbermann put it this way:

"There it is in its starkest form. You don’t even have to think about the ethics. You don’t even have to think about whether the tortured suspect tells you the truth or makes it all up. Legally, you can’t use it. All that trouble, all that pain, all that spitting on what America stands for and your tough guy crap only winds up freeing the guys you think are terrorists. Idiots." --Link

Dr. Galt is right.

DAR
"Galt" is a spineless coward who time and again shows he can only run from defending the claims he posts on this forum.

D.

[Savonarola]

Barrack Hussein Obama ...

I love how you shameless hacks go out of your way to use his middle name, as if it is meaningful. What is meaningful is that you go out of your way to try to draw parallels in order to further your disgusting fearmongering.

DAR
Here is what Karl Rove thinks of this tactic: [snip]

Well, I can't decide. Should I shove it in Abel's face that my analysis is spot-on with Rove's, who most Rethuglicans virtually worship, or do I need to take a two-hour scalding shower for agreeing with such a slimy nutbar?

[Doug]

Well, I can't decide. Should I shove it in Abel's face that my analysis is spot-on with Rove's, who most Rethuglicans virtually worship, or do I need to take a two-hour scalding shower for agreeing with such a slimy nutbar?

DOUG
Both.

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Actually, every time we have a fit about the "Obama is a Muslim" or the "Barack HUSSAIN Obama" routine, we are playing into their hands. Our being defensive says we have something to be defensive about. My preferred response is: "Unfortunately, no. Bin Ladin's whole recruiting point is the American goal is to wipe out Muslims, and we could shoot that down if we elected a Muslim. Oh well, maybe the Hussain middle name will work."