Psychiatrists Least Religous of Physicians

[LaWood]

Although psychiatrists are among the least religious physicians, they seem to be the most interested in the religious and spiritual dimensions of their patients, according to survey data published in the December issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.

Ever since Freud described religious faith as an illusion and a neurosis there has been tension and at times hostility between religion and psychiatry. Psychiatrists are less religious on average than other physicians, according to previously published data from the same survey, and non-psychiatrist physicians who are religious are less willing to refer their patients to psychiatrists. "
.........
"Recent efforts have begun to bridge the divide between religion and psychiatry," said study author Farr Curlin, MD, assistant professor of medicine at the University of Chicago. "In the past, manuals of psychiatry tended to identify religiosity with mental illness. Now they distinguish normal religious and spiritual ideas and behaviors from those that result from mental illness."

"Moreover," he added, "several recent studies have found that religiosity is often associated with improved mental health outcomes such as quicker recovery from depression. Now most training programs teach developing psychiatrists about the potentially beneficial influence of religion and spirituality on patients' mental health."
...
"Psychiatrists and non-psychiatrists alike tend to say that the influence of religion on health is generally positive," said Curlin.

About a third of both groups, however, reported that religion sometimes leads patients not to comply with their doctors' recommendations and to avoid taking responsibility for their own health."

Then the hook:

"Psychiatrists rarely pray with patients, however; only 6% say they do so sometimes, compared to 20% of other physicians."

whole story: http://www.sciencecodex.com/psychiatris ... s_religion

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Well, 20% is not exactly a majority. I don't think I'd worry about physicians, who frequently confuse themselves with god anyway, being a serious problem as far as religiosity is concerned. (Watch out for "christian counselors" - I've known one who told a bi-polar relative who is stable on medication that if she'd just "come to Jesus" she wouldn't need her medication. Fortunately my aunt didn't pay any attention to her.)

From an aetheist point of view, I imagine religiosity IS a mental illness. I personally don't have a problem with harmless delusions - as long as they stay in the harmless category.

[Phalcon]

Near as I can tell, psychiatry, like scientology, is barely science at all. In fact, I see little difference between psychiatry, scientology, shamans, or the priesthood. The function is much the same.

The psychiatrist is just our modern version of the tribal witch doctor or shaman. Most of what they do in ordinary public practice is based on mythology, not any objective fact. Psychiatry is a guild designed to protect, empower, and enrich its members, much like the church protects and empowers priests and bishops. Psychiatrists, however, are far more dangerous than priests, because they are legal drug dealers who can pass out pills for a lot more than known physical disorders. (I recognize that there are SOME psychiatirc physicians who are actually engaged in science, but most are not.)

As long as your diagnosed 'disorder' is classified in their little manual, they can then give you all sorts of dangerous drugs. When I was a teenager, a psychiatrist, after evaluating me, concluded that I had an "adolescent adjustment problem due to my environment."

Wow! What 13 year old doesn't? I could have told him that if he'd bothered to just ask. His 'solution' was to prescribe an anti-depressant drug. Don't bother with analysis or the actual situation that was causing the problem, just treat the symptoms. Besides, that drug company sales guy passes out some nice perks if you sell a lot of product...

I turned down the anti-depressant, and joined the Navy when I turned 17 instead. That changed my 'environment' and gave me new challenges and responsibilities, which was what I really needed instead of drugs.

Had I been a Native American kid, my 'problem' might have been solved with a guided peyote ceremony conducted by the tribal medicine man, and then a vision quest rite of passage. At least there would have been a whole cultural support system in place. I think I'd trust the medicine man before a psychiatrist - he has a far more extensive mythology that is time tested within a cultural context. Psychiatrists can just make it all up as they go along, and no two are alike in their opinion and diagnosis.

Just ask yourself this question: if I needed psychological help, would I REALLY want to go to someone belonging to a guild of drug dealers with one of the highest suicide rates in the world??? In my own experience, I have NEVER met a psychiatrist that I didn't think was seriously disturbed and maybe even dangerous - that's MY experience and opinion.

I think I'll take my chances with the witch doctor...

[Doug]

Near as I can tell, psychiatry, like scientology, is barely science at all. In fact, I see little difference between psychiatry, scientology, shamans, or the priesthood. The function is much the same.

The psychiatrist is just our modern version of the tribal witch doctor or shaman. Most of what they do in ordinary public practice is based on mythology, not any objective fact.

DOUG
That has changed in psychiatry in the last 50 years. It is now much more results-oriented. The Freud and Jung models that people tend to think of when they think of psychiatry and psychology are pretty much defunct.

Whether the "function" is the same as the shaman is irrelevant. The methods in psychology are much more scientific and reliable.

[Dardedar]

I have NEVER met a psychiatrist that I didn't think was seriously disturbed and maybe even dangerous - that's MY experience and opinion.

DAR
Wow, that's a pretty strong claim. Have you read material from Thomas Szasz, or Scientology? There are some folks that hate psychiatry.

[Phalcon]

I read Dianetics many, many years ago, but I do not view Scientology as science - more like a cult and psuedo-science/religion near as I can tell.

I stand by my statement on psychiatrists. The ones I have met scare the hell out of me. As I said, though, that's just MY experience, and I make no claims beyond that. Don't psychiatrists and physicians still have one of the highest suicide rates?

Whether psychiatry is now more 'advanced' or scientific than it was in the days of Freud is, I believe, a judgement call, and whether the results obtained are any better than that of the priest or shaman I'm not so sure about either. I imagine the pharmacological science behind the treatment of certain disorders has advanced quite a bit, as has genetics, etc.

Hey, I admit to a bias here on my part. I said from the start this was just my opinion. I'm just not a big fan of psychiatrists I guess. Don't trust 'em.

I know many claims are made about the drugs used today to treat various psychiatric disorders, but I'm not convinced the cure is not as bad as the disease in many cases. I'm sure some people are helped, but others end up shooting up the joint because of those same drugs.

Seems like it's all still a crap shoot to me.

On the other hand, when writing, I have often become confused and thought I was Andy Rooney, and thus overstated something to make a point. I've also been accused of having a weird sense of humor, and been known to delight in seeing how far I can get away with outlandish statements 'till someone calls me on it...

Talk to everyone later, the nurse is here with my medication and I need to catch a nap while the ward is still quiet....

[Dardedar]

DAR
I tend to agree with your comments.

Don't psychiatrists and physicians still have one of the highest suicide rates?

DAR
The Straight Dope gives this:

I called the library of the Society of Actuaries, thinking they'd know. The librarian said she used to work at a large psychiatric library, and that about 8 years ago, the answer was psychiatrists/psychologists/related. However, she couldnt quote me a source or cite a statistic, except what she says she knew.

A study of 24 states reported data on causes of death by occupation, for people ages 20 to 64, from 1984 to 1988, and came up with physicians, health aides, and "food batchmakers" as the three highest. Food batchmakers are at the top but only by a small (statistically insignificant) margin. Psychiatrists weren't reported separately from other physicians. I'm not sure exactly what the numbers below mean, perhaps suicides per million of active population:

Food batchmakers (241)
Physicians (222) and health aides (excluding nursing) (221)
Lathe and turning machine operators (199)
Biological, life and medical scientists (188)
Social scientists and urban planners (171)
Dentists (165)
Lawyers and Judges (140)
Guards/sales occupations were tied at 139
Tool and die makers (126)
Police, public servants (118)

[Doug]

Whether psychiatry is now more 'advanced' or scientific than it was in the days of Freud is, I believe, a judgement call...

DOUG
Yes, and if the judgment is based on the evidence, we can conclude that the field of human psychology is far more successful now in treating all kinds of mental illnesses than it has ever been before. By far. The best indicator of this is the rate of success and the linking of explanations of this success with scientific observation and measurement.

...and whether the results obtained are any better than that of the priest or shaman I'm not so sure about either.

Of course. Since you know nothing of the success rate of the shaman or the success rate of the psychiatrist, you have no idea how they compare. But then again you are therefore not in a position to say that they are about equal.

I imagine the pharmacological science behind the treatment of certain disorders has advanced quite a bit, as has genetics, etc.

Yes, and that is part of the success story of psychology as a field. Again, gone are the days of bullshit Freudian and Jungian speculation and subsequent diagnosis. You may be unfortunately using that old stereotype--as do Scientologists.