Barbara Fitzpatrick wrote: (The 2nd physician - the first just said there were 20 studies out there proving his point. That's nice. Dr. Pauling had more than 20 studies proving his.
DAR
And what point was that? That it is beneficial to take 1,000's or 10,000+ mg of C a day?
Barbara, according to the NPR blurb, "the Linus Pauling Institute, now says tissues can't use more than about 200 mg per day."
Should I find the research vaguely alluded to on the NPR segment, I will read it and post a summary. Until then, I will stay with the findings of the studies noted in Dr. Pauling's books.
DAR
Are you typing this on a computer from the 60's or 70's? I didn't think so (if you were it would be about the size of an SUV). Pauling's information is outdated (at best) and his more outlandish claims it seems weren't taken seriously even when he made them.
I didn't hear anything (not doubting Darrel - could have been my computer background noise) on that segment that said human tissue can only absorb 200mg, but doubt it seriously, unless the original research said human tissue can only absorb 200mg/kg body weight.
DAR
Here is a transcript of the above audio, no background noise here:
***
"The Vitamin C Myth
February 2, 2006 from Morning Edition
LINDA WERTHEIMER, host: And now to the myth about vitamin C and its effect on the common cold. The health benefits of vitamin C are great, but, as it turns out, only in minimal quantities.
NPR's Patricia Neighmond explains.
PATRICIA NEIGHMOND reporting:
It was Noble Prize winner Linus Pauling, a chemist, who really popularized vitamin C in the early 60s. He suggested that the vitamin, already known to protect against scurvy, was even more beneficial in mega doses. Dr. Marvin Lipman is an endocrinologist in New York and Chief Medical Advisor for the magazine Consumer Reports.
Dr. MARVIN LIPMAN (Endocrinologist and Consumers Union's Chief Medical Advisor): There's very little evidence available that shows that vitamin C in mega doses is good for anything.
NEIGHMOND: Lipman characterizes the taking of mega doses of vitamin C as one of the greatest hoaxes ever played on the American public.
Dr. LIPMAN: There have been at least twenty well controlled studies on the use of mega doses of vitamin C in the prevention of colds, the treating the duration of colds, and in treatment of the severity of colds, and in none of those instances has there been any, really good evidence that vitamin C in mega doses does anything.
NEIGHMOND: Part of the confusion over vitamin C probably revolves around the idea that if something is good, more is better. Vitamin C is good for the body. Lipman:
Dr. LIPMAN: Without vitamin C, the immune function deteriorates, the intercellular cement deteriorates, the linings of blood vessels deteriorate, the membranes of cells deteriorate...
NEIGHMOND: Vitamin C helps decrease the formation of arterial plaque. It also eats up free radicals, which can damage DNA and cause cancer, and if the body gets an infection it mobilizes white cells to fight the infection. But all these benefits occur at what's referred to as optimal levels of vitamin C, which is the RDA or recommended dietary allowance set by the Institute of Medicine. That's 75 milligrams for women and 90 milligrams for men.
Dr. Andrew Weil is a Professor at the University of Arizona, and has written extensively on health and nutrition. Like many Americans, for years he thought mega doses of vitamin C, 1000 milligrams a day or more, were helpful.
Dr. ANDREW WEIL (Author and University of Arizona Professor): What really convinced me to lower my recommendations were two studies, I think this was about four or five years ago, but one of them was done by the Linus Pauling Institute. And they concluded that tissues can't use more than 200 milligrams a day.
NEIGHMOND: Both Dr. Weil and Lipman agree the RDA should be increased to 200 milligrams a day. Because we don't make vitamin C on our own, we have to get it from outside the body. Supplements are one way, but fruits and vegetables are better, because the body absorbs vitamins from food more efficiently.
Consumer Reports' Dr. Lipman.
Dr. LIPMAN: In the studies that we've done, strawberries are the highest in vitamin C content, followed by oranges, cantaloupes, kiwis, black currents and grapefruit. While with vegetables, the exotic bell peppers, and by exotic I mean the colors other than green, the red, the orange, the yellow bell peppers are very high in vitamin C, about 95 milligrams per half a cup.
NEIGHMOND: For himself, Lipman says he takes no vitamin C supplements at all. He says he eats a healthful diet. So does Dr. Weil. But occasionally, says Weil, he succumbs.
Dr. WEIL: If I feel a cold starting, I might take a packet of that, you know, that EmergenC that's 1,000 milligram carbonated, fruit flavored dose. And, maybe it's a placebo, but I feel that sometimes it works for me, and, you know, I may do that, and I'm a physician. So, I think there are many people who do that just because it's a kind of folk medicine in this country.
NEIGHMOND: And luckily, there are no really dangerous side effects from taking too much vitamin C--only flatulence and diarrhea.
Patricia Neighmond, NPR News."
***
DAR
It's fluffy and it's light, this is just a radio blurb after all, but I can back it up. HUGE studies have been clearly showing that taking vitamin C for colds doesn't do jack.
Please read this:
Vitamin C: Do High Doses Prevent Colds?
The gorilla, if not shoved off to marginal lands, gets about 4.5g of vitamin C per day in what it eats.
DAR
This just shows they are eating something that has a lot of vitamin C, not that they need, or use, or even
can use that much vitamin C (as Sav points out too). If I owned a strawberry farm I would have a very high vitamin C intake into too. I would also have a very high vitamin C excretion rate.
Should I find the research vaguely alluded to on the NPR segment, I will read it and post a summary. Until then, I will stay with the findings of the studies noted in Dr. Pauling's books.
DAR
Please read this:
High Doses of Vitamin C Are Not Effective as a Cancer Treatment
It summarizes:
"Thus, three prospectively randomized, placebo-controlled studies involving 367 patients documented no consistent benefit from vitamin C among cancer patients with advanced disease."
If Pauling was right about his vitamin C claims he would be famous for them. Instead his apologists are still defending him from charges of quackery for his vitamin C claims. That says a lot.
D.
----------------------------
Excerpt:
"In 1986, Professor A. Stewart Truswell of the University of Sydney, Australia concisely summarized the results of 27 trials conducted since 1970. [8] Of these, five were treatment trials with vitamin C or a placebo given only at the onset of a cold and for only several days and all of which found no benefit. The other 22 were double-blind controlled trials giving daily vitamin C or placebo before and during colds. Of these, 12 trials showed no prevention and no reduction in duration or severity, five trials showed no prevention and only slight, statistically nonsignificant lessening of severity, and the other five trials reported no prevention and a small but significant in reduction of duration of the colds. Dr. Truswell concluded: "It is now fairly clear that for preventing colds, vitamin C has no worthwhile effect," but he believed that: "There is thus a little more evidence for a small therapeutic effect of ascorbic acid (vitamin C). However, as Dr. T.W. Anderson's second trial in 1974 revealed 250 mg of vitamin per day reduced severity as much as did 1,000 mg or 4, 000 mg [16].
Does it make sense to supplement with vitamin C? If so, should it be done daily or only at the first sign of a cold or other infection? And what dosage should be used? The many studies done in the last 30 years clearly prove that daily vitamin C supplements, whether 100 mg or 5,000 mg, do not prevent colds and provide, but only for some people, only a slight reduction in duration and severity of colds. Dr. Thomas Chalmers concluded in 1975: "I, who have colds as often and as severe as those of any man, do not consider the very minor potential benefit that might result from taking vitamin C three tines a day for life worth either the effort or the risk, no matter how slight the latter might be." [5]
If you choose to supplement when a cold strikes, there is no reason to take more than 250 mg per day, as shown in the 1974 Anderson study. This amount is easily obtained from the age-old "remedy," fruit juices. Supplementation with larger amounts of vitamin C has not been shown to be more effective, and it may cause diarrhea or have other adverse effects." --
Vitamin C: Do High Doses Prevent Colds?
